EP 602. Moving the Needle in Modern-day Alberta

Ramsey Russell: Welcome back to MOJO’s Duck Season Somewhere podcast where today we’re going up into Alberta, a world class destination. You hear me talk about it, it’s where my personal journey in international waterfowling began and it remains a favorite destination for waterfowl, but for so much more. Joining me today, I have got practically half the Board of Directors of APOS at Alberta Professional Outfitter Society, Rob Reynolds, Lloyd McMahon and Christopher Dumbleton. I’ve also got the President, Mr. Corey Jarvis on the other line, we’re going to have a great conversation you all do not want to miss. But first, let me put something up on your calendar. Delta Waterfowl Expos blowing into Oklahoma City July 25^th to 27^th. And if you like duck dogs, hunting gear, guns, calling contest and meeting fellow hunters, this is duck hunters Disneyland. And then the very next weekend, August 1^st to 3^rd, Ducks Unlimited Expo DUX hits Memphis like a freight train full of camo calls and everything outdoors, best yet, both events are in the air conditioning. Come see the latest and greatest before the season gets here. Heck yeah, I’ll be at both shaking hands, telling lies, probably talking too much. So come say hello, put your hands on any and all of the great name brand products you hear about here and let’s swap a few duck blind stories. Don’t just hear about it, be about it. Now back to our regularly scheduled podcast back in Alberta. Guys, how the heck are you doing?

Rob Reynolds: Doing great, thank you.

Ramsey Russell: I always like to ask this of you far north guy, what’s weather like up there? We’re recording here in mid to late June, is summertime finally hit the prairies?

Corey Jarvis: It’s supposed to rain right now where I’m at, we’re supposed to get 4 to 5 inches of rain this weekend, and it’s only about 55 to 65 degrees for the weekend, probably.

Ramsey Russell: That’s good to hear, Cory.

Normally when we talk, you kind of rub it in Ramsey about it being so cold and minus 40 and how do you guys do it? But our summers that we’re just fixing a start, there’s no place like it

Rob Reynolds: Yeah, we cover everybody on the call. We cover different parts of Alberta. Alberta is actually a pretty big province, so the weather fluctuates quite a bit. But I’m sitting right at probably 70 degrees today. Yeah, but normally when we talk, you kind of rub it in Ramsey about it being so cold and minus 40 and how do you guys do it? But our summers that we’re just fixing a start, there’s no place like it. We don’t get burnt up by the heat and humidity. So it’s nice up here.

Ramsey Russell: Well, I’ve just figured to say now there’s heated batteries in the Deep South, you ain’t missing much, I’m going to tell you that. Real quickly, everybody introduce yourselves. Talk a little bit about how you got into hunting and what you do and what led you to APOS. Start with you, Rob Reynolds.

Rob Reynolds: Yeah, Rob Reynolds, Ranchland Outfitters. I started, I guess 2004 is when I became an outfitter in Alberta. And I had guided for a number of years before I started working for a fellow. And to be honest, I didn’t even know when I was 18 years old that a guy could be a guide, I didn’t know anything. What was a guide? A guide was, you just go out hunting, you’re not doing anything, you’re just hunting and you can make money at this, I said to myself, and that’s kind of how I started guiding. And then, I started my own thing in 2004 and it’s been great. I met a lot of interesting people over the years, it’s been wonderful. That’s kind of my humble little beginning.

Ramsey Russell: Well, what led you to become a board member of APOS?

Rob Reynolds: With APOS, it’s a mandatory membership to be an outfitter in APOS and to stay involved. I’m all in on being an outfitter, this is my livelihood. So I’m, trying to keep the direction of, my business heading in the right direction and the same. Yeah, I wanted to be involved. I probably sat on the board maybe for 10 years about now. Wish I had more elaborate to tell you, but that’s kind of my little humble beginning.

Ramsey Russell: What’s your story, Lloyd?

Lloyd McMahon: So, Lloyd McMahon. I’ve been an outfitter for just a little bit over 50 years. I met a guy down the states named Bubba Woods, Martin F. Woods. And he is the originator of the Texas duck stamp and he was one of my early. He came up and saw what we had. He had one of our pictures of our shoots put on the front cover of Orvis magazine and from there it kind of took off. Like we had unlimited number of people that wanted to come up hunting with us. And so we were doing probably one of the first outfitters doing birds, Dave Malloy was actually probably the first one down in southern Alberta and Saskatchewan. And then it just kind of took off. And I shot my first goose when I was like 5 years old, I couldn’t even pump a shotgun, I had to kind of put it down on the ground and eject a shell into it. So ever since I’ve had that passion, during the season, I go out probably twice a day every day, it’s hard for me to sit in bed and miss one, if I’m tired or whatever. When the calling’s coming, I’m going out. So that’s how I started. And then we had to shut down because our bird seasons went to crap. Like you could only shoot 2 ducks. So we just got started up and we had to shut down.

Ramsey Russell: So when would that have been? What year would that have been?

Lloyd McMahon: That would have been in the early 70s.

Ramsey Russell: Okay.

Lloyd McMahon: Kind of went to a 2 bird season 2 or 3 birds, had that point system and all that stuff. And so we shut down then. And then actually Chris and I restarted up after that, I don’t remember what year it was about, probably 30 years or 35 years ago kind of when he got going and we started together and then went our own way. So I’ve been doing a long time, I love it, once you get involved in the people you meet and the places you go, that’s how I got going.

Ramsey Russell: And what led you to become a board member, Board of Directors with APOS?

Lloyd McMahon: Well, APOS was POA before a post and then we just had our, I think, 25^th anniversary. It was a situation where our APOS wasn’t really accomplishing much, I thought. And the other guys on the board now too, I think felt the same way. And so we just kind of reinvented it and we had to just start over and get good communication with the government, which we have now, that’s fantastic, they totally support us. Like Daniel Smith attended our dinner that we had for the ministers. And so, we lobby the government to make it right for hunting in Alberta. So that’s why I got involved.

Ramsey Russell: Fantastic. What’s your story, Christopher?

Christopher Dumbleton: I mean Lloyd touched on it a little bit. Me and him started a bird camp 30 some years ago. But where it really started was with his brother, his brother’s past now and great guy. I got involved with him in my junior high years and it used to take me out to the Wiltmore wilderness and we would guide trail rides and that’s kind of where it started. From there I got into the big game guiding and it was something that I always wanted to do. It was a little tough to get into as far as the big game, it was already regulated, but at that point the waterfowl was unregulated. So it seemed like a real easy fix to get into at the time. And it’s kind of where it started. It was a 2 by 2 inch ad in Ducks Unlimited and it just went from there.

Ramsey Russell: And Cory Jarvis, President of APOS, what’s your story?

Corey Jarvis: Well, it’s a little bit different I guess than the others here. I went to the states and played a little tiny bit of college football in Idaho and was trying to get into veterinary medicine and taking all the pre vet courses. But I love taxidermy, I went to work with a few taxidermists down there, helping them out while I was at school. And everybody that came into the taxidermy studios and find out you’re from Alberta, they all want to come back to Alberta and know where to go and who to go with. And I thought, why am I sitting down here? I’m going to go back to Alberta and start taking some of these guys out. So started organizing a few trips, that was 28 years ago, right around the time that APOS got started. And yeah, that was the start of it for me. And waterfowl was one of the first things I did start with as well at that time.

Ramsey Russell: You played college football in the United States?

Corey Jarvis: Yeah, I did a little bit for college, was called Rick’s College in Idaho.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah.

Corey Jarvis: It was ranked number one in the nation at the time. So it was a good time.

Ramsey Russell: Well, there’s very few Canadians from or very few Albertans, I know that married a Mississippi girl. I mean, that’s right here in my backyard. And we had shared barbecue together, one day at lunch I was shocked to learn that about you.

Corey Jarvis: Yeah, I did. I brought a southern belle up to Canada who now enjoys the Canadian summers like Rob mentioned as well. And she’s excited to get out of the heat that time of year.

Ramsey Russell: I bet she is. I am too. That’s why I spend so much of my life in Duck Season Somewhere. Let’s talk about Alberta as a world class destination, which it is and I say all the time, it is truly where I cut my teeth and I had died and gone to heaven the first time I went to Alberta. And I feel that way every time I visit Alberta. It’s an amazing state. Not the least of which it’s got a – one of the first conversations I had with Rob on the phone, we were talking about, there’s this massive funnel of central and Mississippi flyway speckle bellies that I mean comes right through Alberta. It’s unbelievable when you’re there during the speck migration. But for folks that haven’t yet made the trip, what exactly to you all makes Alberta such a top shelf destination? And I ask this because among you 5, I just rough figuration, we got 125 to 150 years of waterfowl outfit and represented in Alberta and thousands upon thousands of American clients that you all can base this opinion on. What exactly makes Alberta such a top shelf destination? Anybody jump in?

Corey Jarvis: That’s a great question. I’ll take a stab at it and then turn it over to a couple of the others to comment as well. But it is a beautiful province, it’s a big province and as you mentioned, we’re lucky to have a couple of the migratory corridors go through here. A lot of farmland, ranch land and a lot of staging of all those waterfowl as well. And I think we have fairly liberal bag limits, I’m not sure if there’s many places that are much higher than we have in North America anyways, but season starts early and you can get after it and makes it a great place to visit.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah, for sure.

Rob Reynolds: One other thing I could add there, Ramsey. It’s about as predictable as a spot as I’ve ever seen anywhere in the world. I’ve traveled a lot of different places and nowhere even close to where you’ve been, Ramsey. But it’s predictable. We’re in the flyaway, it’s predictable every year. Another perk for Alberta, man, it’s safe to come here. Tourism around the world sometimes people are worried about leaving the United States or whatever to travel and it’s safe to come here. We got two major centers, Edmonton and Calgary and it’s easy for our hunters to come. That’s just two more. We’ll move on.

Ramsey Russell: Safety is a great. I mean, I have described this a million times, we’re talking about before recording, in so many ways, Alberta is like Texas or anywhere else in the Deep South. It’s just the hospitality of Albertans, the friendly people, the friendly nature, the smiling faces. Well, I tell you what, if you get a flat tire somewhere in Alberta, now, you may be on one of them dirt roads miles from nowhere, but the first person that passes by is going to stop and help you. I mean, I’ve never felt unsafe in Alberta, it’s just friendly people. What are some other ways you all can think of?

Lloyd McMahon: I would add that, Alberta has a lot of grain crop land and the huge fields. We have a low population, we don’t have a big population of resident hunters. You have easy access. The farmers want you to come on and get rid of the birds. We have huge numbers. The population and species of birds have increased. I can remember when I was young, if you saw two flocks of Canada geese go into a field, you would dig pits to get in there to shoot them. And now there’d be like 100,000 geese coming out in the morning on any morning and multiple fields. So you can drive along Highway 16 from Edmonton to Lloydminster and see 20 shoots right off the road. So you’ve been up here, like, the numbers of birds and the reception you get from Albertans, they’re very receptive to Americans, and yeah, it’s perfect

Ramsey Russell: Being up at the headwaters of the North American migration, especially when all those birds are coming off the Arctic and staging, it’s just a spectacle. It’s like you’ve died and gone to duck hunter’s heaven just to see all of those birds up in the air at one time, it’s unbelievable. We could be talking snow geese, we could talk about specks, we could talk about cacklers, Canada geese, mallards, pintails, it’s just unbelievable. And Rob and I have talked about this in previous podcasts, Alberta, it is a very big area, but you’ve got that northern tier up there around Peace country, you come down, you got the middle section, you go further south, you’ve got the southern section, that’s a long season. And as I recall, kick off the first week of September and end sometime a week, 10 days or so before Christmas, that’s just how big of an area it is.

Lloyd McMahon: 24^th of December.

Ramsey Russell: That’s unbelievable. There’s very few places on earth. I mean, we’re talking liberal bag limits and early start, just the sheer species diversity combining to make a world class hunt. But now I’m a duck and goose hunter myself, you all do have a lot of upland birds there. But several of you all mentioned during the introductions that you all hunt species other than waterfowl. The sheer number of North American big game available in Alberta is – Well, you don’t have caribou, that’s one species I can think of, but I think you have just about everything. You don’t have musk ox, but you got just about everything else. Elk and bear and big whitetails, big moose, big mule deer. Do some of you all guide? I know Rob, you guide for some deer. Do several of you all guide for other big game species too?

Corey Jarvis: I do a lot.

Lloyd McMahon: Go ahead. Sorry.

Corey Jarvis: Yeah, sorry. I’ll start out. Yeah, we do focus on, we’ve kind of split our business with one of my sons getting old enough now and loving waterfowl. So he’s kind of taking the waterfowl thing on under his wing, no pun intended. But I do archery mule deer has kind of become our main thing these days and then some spring bear hunts. But we do a few TV shows every year with the Drury’s and others for mule deer. So it’s a pretty special place, you’re correct that there is a very wide variety of wildlife.

Ramsey Russell: So are most of those North American species available to non-residents to hunt guided. I know the whitetail, I know the mule deer, I know the moose, elk?

Corey Jarvis: Yeah, there’s only a couple that are not available. But through our system in Alberta, like you’ve mentioned before, I’m sure is, our organization, our outfitters association is pretty well organized and so we manage and handle all the non-resident hunting coming into Alberta. And so outfitters across the province from corner to corner, tip to tip, they’re all covering all the different species. So from wolves and coyotes and bears and cougars all the way on up, you can’t hunt mountain goats unless you’re a resident. But everything else, including bison even, we got the largest free range bison herd in the world here in Alberta.

Ramsey Russell: That’s right. Is that the woodland bison? I believe it is the big one. Big one, way up north, you all got up. It’d be up in peace country, wouldn’t it?

Lloyd McMahon: Yeah, not that far necessarily, but yeah.

Ramsey Russell: What about pronghorn? Can non-residents do guided pronghorn hunts?

Corey Jarvis: Yes, sir.

Ramsey Russell: Wow. Unbelievable.

Corey Jarvis: We’re at the northern tip of the pronghorn range, but we have some actually really high end quality pronghorn.

Ramsey Russell: Very big ones.

Corey Jarvis: Not a lot of opportunity. There’s 55 available permits used every year by the outfitters, and so those will go to non-residents or non-residents from out of country.

Ramsey Russell: It’s been my experience that coming to Alberta works logistically, especially if I’m flying. I get over some of those – and look, I’ve hunted 7 Canadian provinces, I love them all for their own little appeal, I’ve never had a bad time. But Alberta, when you start talking logistics, I’m going to fly to go on this vacation. Alberta works. I mean, you start getting over to eastern Canada, it’s a whole different deal coming through Toronto with firearms. Boy, I tell you what, there’s a lot of places I’d rather come through with firearms than Toronto. But coming into Alberta, with that western, it works. It makes it easy for traveling waterfowl to hit the ground running. You all as a collection of outfitters that have dealt with a lot of American and international guests. How important is that streamlined experience and no direct flights to a lot of your clients coming in?

Lloyd McMahon: Yeah, go ahead.

Rob Reynolds: I would say some of our flights have changed a little bit since COVID but yeah, it’s super easy to get in and out of Alberta. There’s major connectors, Denver and Chicago and there’s some major centers that it’s direct and it’s super easy.

Ramsey Russell: There’s a direct flight from Houston to Calgary. I mean, it’s super easy, it really truly is. It’s easy to fly. And you’re right, before the pandemic, it was easier flying anywhere on earth, but since then, the airlines haven’t caught up. But still, it’s relatively easy getting into Alberta. And one thing I’ve noticed, talking to a lot of my clients from around the country, boy, if you live anywhere in that Pacific flyway or from I don’t know, Montana, Idaho, maybe even Colorado West, it’s about a day’s drive, you just drift right across the border in Alberta. And I would bet you all do a lot of business with Pacific Flyaway folks. And I want to shift gears and talk a little bit about Alberta Professional Outfitter Society, you all have outfitting standards. How does APOS give non-residents peace of mind when booking a hunt? And I’m asking this question because this is becoming a talking point here, south of the border in North America right now and in the United States, outfitting standards. What does APOS bring to the table?

Lloyd McMahon: Corey, you could probably answer that pretty good.

Corey Jarvis: Yeah, well, I’d love to answer that, Ramsey. So I think we’re unique as a North American destination that we did structure and organization the way we did almost 30 years ago. And as Rob mentioned earlier, if you’re going to guide in Alberta for money, you need to be a member of our organization. And what that does is it provides insurance for the client, our trips are all bonded, you’ve got deposit protection as well. And then we operate under a code of ethics and standards that, outfitters are supposed to perform by and make sure you’re doing what you say you do and offering what you say you offer. And there’s a bit of a process, if you have trouble with a hunter and outfitter in Alberta, you can file a complaint with our organization, which is pretty handy and hopefully we don’t have many of those, but on occasion, something could go awry. So anyway, it is very well organized, it’s also structured in, where people can operate and I think that’s a big part of it. We spread the operations of outfitters across the province and limit them to an extent where, you can have a pretty reliable opportunity no matter where you go.

Ramsey Russell: Well, I’ll share something to anybody listening that 20 something years ago, a long time ago, when I was just getting into this game, I had dealings with an unscrupulous outfitter, it was operating in Alberta, and I was fixing to get hammered, no hunt, no money, no nothing, but it was bad. And I knew nothing about APOs other than that existed. And just as a last resort, I called and the guy said, would you please put that in an email to me? And I did. And they resolved that situation. It wasn’t 4 days later, the outfitter contacted me and I got refunded. He couldn’t deliver the hunt, but he did refund the money. Had it not been for APOS coming to the rescue, I’d have been in a world of hurt. And that’s what put APOS forevermore up on my radar. What role does APOS bonding insurance and code of ethics play in protecting hunters to you all and elevating Alberta’s reputation as a premier hunting destination?

Corey Jarvis: I think any traveling hunter would appreciate those things being in place, as you mentioned, it’s not likely, but it does happen. And you run into somebody that doesn’t perform there, there are some opportunities there for you. So just having that protection, I think is peace of mind for any traveling hunter.

And you get into hunting in a lot of different places, there are none. Anybody with a Facebook page and a sack of decoys can be an outfitter

Ramsey Russell: For the past 25 years, I’ve worked in the outfitting industry in all the countries, all the places, dealing with lots and lots of folks. And it’s almost like the wild west. If you look at any other profession, real estate, medicine, law, anything forestry, wildlife, there are professional standards that we all have to ascribe to. And you get into hunting in a lot of different places, there are none. Anybody with a Facebook page and a sack of decoys can be an outfitter. If you don’t believe him, just look at his Facebook page or call him. I know this is a personal opinion, but also a professional opinion. Why should US States or other Canadian provinces adopt outfitting standards? How do you all feel being unique in North America to have such. I mean, I think you said earlier you all been existing for 35 or 40 years. How does it feel from you all’s perspective, having this in place? What would be your opinion to any other state or Canadian provinces considering a professional outfitter society and having those codes of ethics in play?

Corey Jarvis: Want to tackle that one, Robert?

Rob Reynolds: Yeah. Each jurisdiction has its own way, it’s set up, and most of it’s volunteer. We all have pride in our own organization being the best when you see the results of, some turmoil in other jurisdictions. So I don’t know, I have a biased opinion, but it’s because of the history that we’ve seen all the successes. And for a traveling hunter, it’s the level of protection it offers and that would be my feedback.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah. It’s becoming a conversation south of the border, I’m hearing it more and more. There’s a few states you have to have an outfitter license to regulate. And more and more I’m hearing the conversation of, especially from the hunter side and some of the organizational side, wishing that there was a standard that all outfitters had to subscribe to. If nothing else, just a proving ground, you know what I’m saying? And if we talk about the rule book just a little bit, because I know that APOS is very involved, let’s talk about some recent regulation changes in Alberta. What regulation changes have been introduced recently and what’s driving them?

Corey Jarvis: Well, we have –

Lloyd McMahon: Go ahead, Corey.

Corey Jarvis: I can handle this again, because I’ve been directly involved in quite a bit of this. And I think that’s another good thing about an organization, we hear from all of our members. So it’s not one offs going to the government with their own idea or whatever. We kind of try and compile regulations that work best for the larger group. And so we spend time bringing those forward to government, going through the legislative process and whatnot. And we have a real proactive hunting management system in Alberta. Our government right now is very pro hunting, so that’s been beneficial, for sure. But even things as simple as lowering the age of hunting now to 10 years old and in many states that may already be the case. But I remember when I started, I think 14 was the minimum age, so it went down to 12 and now to 10. So that’s a good one. We have kind of cleaned up a bunch of rules on transporting wildlife and doing different things, a lot of things pertaining to big game, that have changed as well. But even federally they’ve changed some of the regulations, making it a little easier with bag limits and processing your birds and what needs to be processed and kept and so on.

Ramsey Russell: Well, I know there was a big push not too long ago to modernize some of the migratory bird transportation rules, it just made it easy. If a guy’s going to go out to Alberta, say some guys from back east in Canadian, you got to stay in Canada. But I mean, if a guy’s going to go shoot snow geese in Canada in the spring, gosh, it’s kind of hard to leave a head or wing attached and bring all those birds back home to Nova Scotia. So it was modernized. Have you seen a positive result? I mean, have you all seen it’s been received well by your resident hunters? No problems?

Corey Jarvis: Yeah, I think certainly. And especially, it makes life a little easier for outfitters as well. It helps make the movement of that a little more flexible. I think there’s also some changes in the works that we’ve worked on for a while as far as, I think you may have touched on it on a podcast or two in the past, but most recently Alberta has done some similar implementations as Manitoba in regulating freelance hunting a little bit. So there’s some changes in that area. So part of it is we split the license, so now you identify your hunt by the license type. You can hunt with an outfitter and there’s an outfitted waterfowl license and then you can hunt on your own and there’s a non-outfitted waterfowl license, but it allows us to capture the numbers a little bit better and to see where we’re at with the freelance hunters and where they’re traveling and more specifically, even if there’s certain hotspot areas within the province. So I think the intent is that as we go forward, we can kind of see if there’s something we need to look at to make adjustments on that so the pressure is more distributed.

Ramsey Russell: Well, Cory, what specifically were those changes, like maximum days? I remember last year I could hunt with an outfitter, I could hunt with Rob for so many days up there at Ranchland. I could go over to hunt with some friends of mine for so many days. But like, what are the maximum days? And what is the rationale behind these rule changes?

Corey Jarvis: Anyone else want to tackle that or you want –

Lloyd McMahon: So basically if you’re coming in as a freelancer, you’re limited to X amount of days. Like I think last year you had two 7 day licenses. If you come with an outfitter, you can stay unlimited or go with multiple outfitters and you’re not restricted that way. And part of the reason for that is when you get into the freelance aspect, like if you look at, and I can’t give you the exact numbers, but freelancers going into Saskatchewan you’ve got something like 25,000. Alberta you have like 2,000. And it’s also protects the residents, because although we’re outfitters, residents come first. And so in order to have your clients accepted, you have to appease a resident. So we work on that. There’s I think close to 40 regulation changes this year that benefit the outfitters and the residents. And part of it’s like you’re talking about like processing of birds, giving away the meat. It used to be very difficult to give away birds and meat and the government’s relaxed that. So our society represents like 500 outfitters and probably up to 200 guides. And so we speak as a united voice. And so we’re not in it just for us, we’re in it for the residents. And so these regulation changes don’t just help us, it helps the residents and it, it helps to – when a Native American or a foreigner comes in to hunt on its own, you don’t want to flood the zone, you don’t want to have like 500 or a 1000 people in one WMU. So we’re trying to get data more than anything right now to be able to help those people coming in. If you come in as a non-resident hunt on your own and you go into a WMU and there’s 500 guys in there, what’s your quality of hunt going to be? So we’re trying to keep standards quality and appease everybody. And so our board for the last 10 years has been absolutely unbelievable working with the government and the government has been very receptive to us and they understand the value of tourism. And whereas a lot of governments don’t want to have anything to do with bloodsport type industry, our government is more receptive and they understand the value and they want to keep anyone coming in here happy. And that’s why we have standards and ethics, etcetera.

Ramsey Russell: That’s great, Lloyd. I’ve always respected from the outside looking in, how Canada seems to have an underlying commitment to resident hunters. I mean, it’s just so many of the rules and stuff over the years has always prioritized regular hunters being able to go out, a father take his two sons and knock on doors and have access, it’s always seemed to be very protective of access, which elsewhere in North America is becoming an extremely limiting factor. I know from talking to folks that hunter participation has declined in Canada, it’s also declined in the United States. And one of the major causes, I believe, of decline in hunting participation in the United States is just access somewhere to hunt. I’ve seen some of these folks have youth hunts, man, we’re going to take these 7 and 8 year old kids out on a private piece of property and we’re going to show them a great time, we’re going to show them how to duck hunt, show them a good hunt in February and make them duck hunters. That’s all good and fine, but comes the question, where the heck are they going to hunt? Because it’s becoming very hard to find somewhere to hunt in the United States. And so how specifically do a lot of these changes, I get it, how specifically do you see a lot of you all changes affecting resident hunters, freelancers, outfitters and especially landowners? Because when APOS is not just one man acting, it’s taken into consideration all its outfitters, well, the outfitters have a relationship with lots and lots of landowners. And so I’m sure that their opinions are driving some of this too.

The majority of them, I think, are pretty happy with the way we operate. If I could add to that a little bit guys

Lloyd McMahon: Well, I can speak to that a little bit. I mean, like in our industry you have to appease the landowner. I mean the landowner is the bread and butter, whether residents get on or outfitters get on. There are certain landowners that don’t want any foreigners hunting on their land. And so what we do in our WMU is we take a list of that. And so when a resident comes and he’s looking for a shoot, we say contact this guy, this guy only lets residents on the land. And so you have to work with the landowners, you have to work with the residents. Like lots of times we’ll have shoots, like we own private property and whatever and we have shoots. We let the residents hunt, we don’t cut them out at all. Like we’re trying to appease the residents. Because if we don’t have the residents happy we’re not going to be in existence, that’s just the reality of it. So it’s very dedicated. Like our society really is concerned about how the residents feel and you’re always going to have somebody that’s disgruntled. But the majority of them, I think, are pretty happy with the way we operate.

Christopher Dumbleton: If I could add to that a little bit guys.

Ramsey Russell: Thanks, Chris.

Christopher Dumbleton: We look at what makes Alberta the great destination and we’ve hit on all those points. But access to the resources is huge and we want to keep it that way. And I believe these regulations are going to help with that. By, originally I talked about, when I got into it, there was no regulation on outfitters and some of these WMUs got swamped with outfitters and that’s why we had to form a system to spread ourselves out. So the landowners were happy, the residents were happy, access was still available. And with Alberta becoming a popular destination and more rules coming into other prairie provinces, as we get an influx of freelancers, which we welcome, we want to make sure that when they do come that they’re going to have a great opportunity and a good hunt when they get here too. And so, a little bit more regulation a lot of people don’t like sometimes, but the end result is we’re trying to keep Alberta, what it’s great for, and that is access to the resource in all areas.

Ramsey Russell: It sounds like a great design to ensure access for both resident and non-resident, both guided and freelance hunters. Can anybody speak to a broader management strategy with respect to Alberta’s sustainable game bird populations?

Corey Jarvis: First, I want to go back a little bit, if you don’t mind, Ramsey, and talk about one thing that may be a little bit unknown amongst the freelance hunters, but also a controversial issue, and we haven’t touched on it yet here though, is in Alberta, one thing most of my hunters, with almost without exception, they don’t realize that in Alberta it is illegal to pay for access to hunt on someone’s land. So the landowners cannot charge you a trespass fee or an access fee or anything else. So to touch on a little bit of what Lloyd said and stuff, you have to be very conscious of how you hunt and how you treat landowners property and how you treat the landowners themselves when seeking permission and so on. And so building those relationships is rather critical. But I think it’s also maybe a bit of a challenge when freelancers come up realizing and understanding that the access can’t be paid for. You can’t go knock on a guy’s door and say, hey, we’ll pay you 100 bucks or a couple hundred bucks to let us shoot that field or whatever. So, that does become a little bit of a challenge and it also becomes a little bit of a sore spot, rubbing spot where, there’s controversy between the freelance hunters that come up and are used to that kind of system and then those that hunt as residents just trying to access the resource, or even the outfitters trying to access the resource and finding out that some piece of property maybe has been tied up by that. So Alberta really prides itself on that open access concept and I think it is one of the reasons why we still have the access and the opportunity to find a good spot to hunt, whether it be waterfowl or big game or whatever. And you have a shot at getting permission on that property. And it also, based on previous experiences that landowners had with hunters. So really encourages us all to try and be respectful of those access opportunities and the landowners and so on. So I just wanted to go back and touch on that. Now, I can go back to your other question.

Ramsey Russell: Wait a minute. Now that you brought that subject up. How did that rule come into existence? Because as American, duck hunting is “becoming a rich man’s sport” because of leases, driving up the prices, which is also hurting access like we talked about. How did that rule come into being that you can’t pay out in western Canada to hunt properties?

Corey Jarvis: I think it’s always been that case in Alberta. And it’s one of the most stringent and guarded rules. Like there is a uproar if that, people start to approach that rule for some discussion about changing. So as long as I can remember hunting for 30 plus years that that’s been the case and the rule. And it has frankly protected a lot of opportunity for the average guy and whatever, just to go out and hunt. You can hunt around your local communities, everybody can hunt. And yeah, it is something quite unique and quite special. I don’t know if anybody else wants to make a comment on that one as well.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah. And then the second part of that question that you were going to answer before we sidelined, was talking about this as a part of a broader management strategy for Alberta’s sustainable game bird populations. How does that play into it?

Corey Jarvis: I think managing game birds, the weather and things like that kind of help to manage it more than anyone in and of themselves. I think, you see flyaway patterns changing a little bit based on types of crops and crop rotations and things like that. I noticed the snow goose migration moving further and further west as they go. But our organization as a whole, we have a big interest in supporting wildlife management at all different levels and wherever it can be. And you asked about the benefit of such an organization, one thing is we have come together as a group and we’ve come up with some really unique ways to raise and save money. And now we’re in a really healthy position right now where we can support a lot of money. I mean, it’s almost to the point of unbelievable how much money we are contributing to, across the province to different habitat and management projects. And I think the one focusing mostly on birds right now is we have done quite a bit of work with delta waterfowl in recent years. And I think we just awarded them a grant for $60,000 for their duck nesting tunnels and distributing them across the pothole region here on the prairies a little bit more. So that’s one we’re working on right now when it comes to waterfowl. But this group of 500 outfitters, a little over 500 outfitters, our annual fees and dues amounts to a little over a million dollars, probably closer to $1.2 million. And at the moment, we’ve made some negotiations with the government. As I said, they’re very proactive in management and in hunting, so we’ve convinced them that we should use that money for conservation. So they’ve allowed that money to, annually to stay in a fund we call the Wildlife Management Fund. And then we can distribute it to different projects and activities on habitat and research and so on. So it’s quite unique I think as well. So this organization generating that much money annually to go to conservation, I mean, you could have a lot of DU chapters and different things, having banquets to try and make that kind of money. But it’s unique to our organization, I think pretty certain on that.

Ramsey Russell: I like that.

Lloyd McMahon: We also have the ministry special license that brings in close to a million dollars that gets distributed to other projects.

Ramsey Russell: Wow, that’s fantastic. A lot of people forget that outfitters aren’t just guides, they really, you all especially are land stewards. I mean working with the land and I’m excited to hear that APOS has a wildlife management fund that directly supports habitat and game management. I was going to ask before we swap topics, you know what the response from landowners and traveling hunters have been in light of some of those regulations scaling back non-resident days. Have you all gotten any feedback from that or maybe even from outfitters yet?

Corey Jarvis: I think the results are yet to be determined. I haven’t seen or heard too much negative. I think, maybe when it first came out there might have been a little bit of back and forth on some of the chat rooms and whatnot as to what kind of effect it would have had. But to be honest, as they implemented it, we try to leave it fairly flexible to start with. So I think two 7 day windows to hunt is still pretty generous for most people. And then the requirement to specify 3 of our management units that you’re going to hunt in I think still gives a pretty broad opportunity. Like these are huge areas and not a lot of people are going to cover much more area than that. So I think as we get a little more data from it, I think last year was the first year. So as we get a little more data we can determine if there are some hotspots or any issues. So yeah, I haven’t heard anything too negative yet. How about you on your end, Ramsey?

Ramsey Russell: Nothing. I’ve not heard anything and I mean I’m that guy that may spend a few more days up there in Canada than the average listener, that takes a week off of work. It hadn’t put a cramp in my style. I mean, I see so much what’s happening south of the border that I welcome change. It’s like, Manitoba, that was a very, I mean, let’s face it, when it first got announced, it hit a lot of people in the gut. I spent some days in Manitoba, now I can’t but spend as much time in Manitoba hunting with buddies. But at the same time, I mean, we’ve got to be give and take moving into the future. We can’t be just all take, we’ve got to give if we’re going to keep this thing. And one of the great things, to circle back to what we talked about in the front about what makes Alberta and Canada in general just such a destination is it’s not just an abundance of birds, it’s unpressured birds relatively, which creates a high quality experience. And we can’t just rut it up and wear it out without expecting diminished quality. So, I’m getting at that point, I choose I would rather hunt fewer days and have a better experience than more days and have a lesser experience, yhat’s just the way I’m at. So I support it wholeheartedly, which is why I wanted to talk about this topic so much. I perceive changes coming beyond Alberta and Manitoba to throughout the North American continent, we’re starting to see different states put limitations on how many days or where or when non-residents can hunt. And I think that’s going to be a strategy that we have to all cope with if we’re going to ensure the future of duck hunting and having somewhere to duck hunt. I just think, we’ve done a lot of talk about different popular locations where 70 people are sharing a duck hole on opening day. I’m out.

Corey Jarvis: It is one of the things you experience when you come to Alberta is just the vastness and the amount of opportunity and so we’re hoping to keep it that way. And it seems like many states and jurisdictions are grappling with that problem of, how to manage the pressure and the access opportunities and things like that. You did mention earlier, I wanted to touch on that hunter numbers seem to be diminishing in many areas. Alberta is also unique in the sense that our hunter numbers continue to increase.

Ramsey Russell: Really? And you mean resident hunters?

Corey Jarvis: Yes, sir.

Ramsey Russell: Wow. Fantastic.

Corey Jarvis: I don’t think we’ve had a dip in that for a while here. So it keeps going up every year and we’re happy for that. But it comes with its challenges. And so, you like to look ahead and make sure we’re kind of staying ahead of the curb. And it’s pretty easy for managers as well to look at other jurisdictions and see what kind of problems they’ve struggled with and work to get ahead of it.

Lloyd McMahon: So one other thing, when you talk about these regulations and there’s always the bad apple. Like one of the things we’re trying to do is protect the outfitters, and the residents. When you get a guy that, or an individual comes up from the states and he starts at the top end and he hunts all the way down and every week he’s got a different group of friends. And so we know that it’s not a legitimate operation happening. And some of these regulations protect the residents and it protects the outfitters and the landowner and the guy that, he books a bunch of guys and then he’s not at the airport when you show up, just the same thing that happened to you. So these regulations are very important for the security of a foreigner coming into Alberta to hunt.

Ramsey Russell: And I’d like to say it, it also helps the resource because we all talk about hunting being conservation, but it only works if those dollars end up conservation, end up in the right hands in the local communities, we’re going to talk about in a minute, when it just ends up in one man’s pocket cash money that goes across the border, that ain’t doing jack diddly for the wildlife resource or for hunting or for nothing except for one person. So I support that wholeheartedly. And it’s not just folks coming from across you all border, I’ve seen the neighbors to the east right there that got a whole lot of friends during hunting season. There’s a lot of folks in this business all of a sudden get a whole lot of friends they met on the Internet, even though they’re not outfitters, they got more friends than I’ve ever seen. And I want to ask you again about that, I want to hear a little bit, just a little elaboration on the wildlife management fund. Because again, a lot of people think, well, outfitters are all take, there is no give. And here you all got the Alberta Professional Outfitter Society just created a wildlife management fund. Where did that come from? Where did that idea come from? I mean, there’s a lot of groups raise money like you all do that don’t come up with this back idea of giving back, Corey.

Corey Jarvis: This goes back to when you talk about the benefits of structuring an organization. So when the organization was first created back in the late 90s and when it changed from, as Lloyd mentioned, there used to be a POAA Professional Outfitters Association of Alberta, prior to this was a little less organized. But during the creation and in talks with government, the idea was floated then that hey, let’s charge outfitters some fees annually for the access to the resource. So that’s what it comes from is your access to the resource. So, each of us on here, whether we’re guiding a deer or a bear or these waterfowl territories that we have, we pay a renewal fee every year to keep that opportunity. So that went into a pot. So that idea was floated back then that let’s use that money for conservation. Now for whatever reason at the time, the idea didn’t really come to fruition. And so for 20 some years we’ve been sending that annual check, when we collect all the outfitters fees in the spring, they’re all due by April 1^st, we send that check to the government for a little over a million dollars. So in the past 5 years, we negotiated with them that, hey, we’ll put it to good use, we’ll set up a committee that distributes the fund. You and the government, the government can be a part of that committee, so we all make good decisions. You can tell us the, some of the interests and needs that the government sees for management as well, and we’ll all work together and put this money back into the resources. And so we are the managers of that fund now. And there’s other ways that money comes into that fund as well, but primarily that big chunk is the annual fees that the outfitters pay.

Ramsey Russell: Fantastic. That’s such a great program. And I heard you say that you all made a major contribution to Delta Waterfowl. A lot of their hen boxes, hen houses through this wildlife management fund. I mean, what does that look like on a landscape? How many hen houses are we talking about? Do you have any idea? It’s got to be a bunch.

Lloyd McMahon: 500 this year.

Ramsey Russell: How many?

Lloyd McMahon: 500.

Ramsey Russell: 500.

Lloyd McMahon: And the maintenance of the ones that we’ve contributed to before.

Ramsey Russell: So thousands, we’re looking at impacting thousands of hen houses.

Corey Jarvis: That’s those nest tunnels, they’ve put up in the pond.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah, I have seen them, like a tunnel with hay in it and hen jumps up there and makes a nest. And I’ve heard they’re really good at producing mallards.

Corey Jarvis: I think it’ll probably, the actual effect on the landscape will happen over the winter because I don’t know that the money came in time to get them all out for this spring, the nesting season is nearing the end here.

Ramsey Russell: Is this part of a longer term partnership with Delta Waterfowl? And what are you all shooting for? I mean, do you have a goal that you’re aiming for?

Rob Reynolds: When I first started talking with Delta, it’s actually when I saw you last year Ramsey, ran into one of the Delta guys and they have a million duck campaign. And this is all part of that campaign to create, put an extra million ducks on the landscape. So this is part of their commitment.

Ramsey Russell: What a heck of a start just in Alberta. Congratulations and thank you all very much for doing that. What can you all tell me about the community investment fund?

Christopher Dumbleton: If I can speak to that a little bit? It’s a new concept that we’ve come up with through licensing and everything else, we’ve set up a community investment fund. And these small communities throughout Alberta, there’s sports teams, there’s agricultural societies, non-profits, and a lot of times they struggle to keep these old community halls open and ice rinks open and many other things. And with this fund, what the outfitters can do is they can apply for a match grant with the APOS. I think this year it was up to $5000 and where an outfitter can donate to his hockey team or the local ag society for community projects to keep ice in the rinks, to keep the heat on, that type of thing 4H Clubs, it just goes on and on. So it’s a match grant. So any outfitter can support one of his community incentives and apply for the match grant through the APOS. So I think it’s just a great program to keep these communities vibrant and alive.

Corey Jarvis: We know that our outfitters are contributing across the province and even around the globe, donating hunts to different chapters and organizations and so on and then within their own communities and we wanted to try and get a sense of, and capture some of what’s going on, for starters. And then, with that, we thought we’d like to try and help make the impacts and the donations a little more impactful. So we did also create and set aside money annually that goes into that. I think we just reviewed 11 projects or something a couple of weeks ago and gave out $30,000 that will go back into those communities for those various things from food banks. We donated to some food banks where outfitters were donating their meat and covering the processing fees and all the way on up, as Chris mentioned, to ag societies, 4H Clubs, sports teams. So if an outfitter can come up with an idea that he wants to support something in his community, we have a committee that meets and reviews those projects and then we match their funds.

Ramsey Russell: I think that’s fantastic. Why is this important to the future of hunting and the future of outfitting in Alberta? I mean, what’s so charming about Canada, Western Canada, Alberta is, boy, once you get out of Calgary and Edmonton, it’s like the good old days. It’s like a Norman Rockwell painting back in the old days. These little bitty communities, but they’re struggling, especially right now with the pipeline not running. I mean, a lot of these communities are struggling. But why is that personally and professionally important to APOS to sustain these communities?

Corey Jarvis: Well, I’ll hit it again unless anybody else wants to tackle it. But I’ve always got a lot to say as you might have recognized, Ramsey.

Ramsey Russell: That’s why you’re president.

Corey Jarvis: Well, I mean, I think that type of goodwill and effort, we live and work in these communities, so we’re happy to help out and give back, the communities have given a lot to us and it’s just a goodwill gesture to help out where we can. I mean, we’re fortunate to be in this industry, we’re fortunate to do what we do and we need the support of others to do what we do. So I think it’s just an effort of giving back, I think, charitable type of operations are good no matter what they are or where they are.

And I mean, you all are leading the charge on a community outreach program that I believe is good long term support for both conservation and hunting

Ramsey Russell: I agree. We always talk about hunting being conservation, it’s good for wildlife, but it’s also good for people in rural communities. And I mean, you all are leading the charge on a community outreach program that I believe is good long term support for both conservation and hunting. And I really love to hear this kind of stuff coming out of professional outfitter society like you all. I want to kind of wrap this up and after all you all’s years in the field, 150 years of guided hunting represented on today’s podcast, what do you think that most hunters misunderstand about what it means to be a professional outfitter in Alberta? You all have read those social media posts.

Christopher Dumbleton: To be a professional outfitters in Alberta has been a blessing to my family. It has given us a lifestyle that is just out of this world as far as quality, the kids being involved, my wife being involved with it, a sense of community, all of those things. And one of the huge things is the friends I have made south of the border over the last 30 years, it’s just been an incredible ride.

Ramsey Russell: Thank you. Everybody wants to be a duck guide till it’s time to do real duck guide shit. Even in Alberta, where you all got abundance of birds, it’s not always easy.

Corey Jarvis: And the sun comes up early here in Alberta, Ramsey. You’re going to beat the ducks of the field, you better be an early riser. But I think, I’m proud of Alberta and I love where we live, I think it’s a beautiful place. And so we used to have, years ago, when I was younger, I remember one of the kind of the slogans of the tourism industry was smile, you’re a tourist attraction. I think, what I love about it is sharing Alberta with others. And like you said, I think a lot of hunters come here and I get the comment like they feel like they’re stepping back in time, they feel like this is what it was like when they were a kid going out hunting and seeing all the game and having those opportunities and getting to a water hole that you’re the only person there, you kind of feel like you’re all alone and yeah, so it brings back a lot of that. And I think, being an outfitter is a challenge for the workload. I think some people you asked about what’s different, some people think it’s just going out and having fun every day and there certainly is that. But there’s a lot of work and a lot of logistics and if you do it right, it takes a lot of effort. I think that’s why people are willing to pay the money to get the guide services to get the access to the land and so on. So all that scouting and effort that goes into it probably shouldn’t go unnoticed.

Lloyd McMahon: So one thing, the outfitting industry to me is like when we first started and you’re an outfitter, the people are, oh, you’re an outfitter, you’re taking off the land. But as soon as they get know you and you start contributing more, when a farmer has a problem with gophers or some problem and he phones you and you’re there, the resident isn’t necessarily there. We’re there year round with the farmers. We’re taking out their Kids, like, we do a lot of youth hunts. Like, I started out taking some kids that were 8 years old with their grandfather and now those guys are guiding for me. kids all want to be, if you got that hunting drive in you, you want to be a hunter, you want to be a guide, you want to be a fishing guide, you want to do all those things and a lot of them don’t get the opportunity. And we’ve taken a lot of youth hunters that would never have ever gotten the field if their parents had to do it because they had no interest in hunting. And so all of a sudden we had one time at APOS a deal where we would give away a hunt to Fish and Game Associations and kids would come from 200 miles away and stay overnight at our camp and meet our hunters and stay overnight and go on a Saturday morning shoot with a bunch of American hunters. And we have farmers that come over and have dinner with us at night with our American hunters. And they love it. And our hunters love to see what the farmers are doing, like what they’re doing with their cattle and what they’re doing with their crops and it’s a shared interest and there’s long term relationships that are formed with these people meeting each other. And that’s one of the reasons why we continue to have access, like, it’s a bonding with your neighbors. And so outfitters aren’t just shutting out residents, they’re also helping residents. So a lot of times, and I’m sure every outfitter on this chat has sometime said to a group of residents, well come join us on a hunt and rather than screw up a shoot. And so there’s a bonding. And all of a sudden, I had a guy a couple of years ago say to me, he met me later and he said, I was stuck on this road for like 4 hours and these residents were going by me and you stopped and pulled me out and like, I would have never expected that. And so, those little things go a long ways. And life’s a long time, not a short time. So it starts off slow, but it ends up big. So outfitting has been great. I mean, some of the most fantastic people, like I was saying Bubble Woods, Martin F. Woods, you own collectors Covey, he just passed away recently and if you look up his obituary, what he contributed to through the hunting world, like, he’s a big contributor of North American Sheep Foundation. And all the things that those guys have done, those people I’ve been fortunate enough to meet, to me, they’re what contributed to what hunting is today in the United States and all over the world. Like, they opened up Mongolia, all kinds of places, Birminghams, they hunted with me in the early days. Juan and John, the fathers and then their sons. And I’ve met such a unbelievable amount of people that have contributed so much to wildlife. It just amazes me.

Ramsey Russell: Fantastic.

Rob Reynolds: You asked about the professional part of APOS, and professional to me means, you can interchange professional for responsible and accountable and just held to a higher standard. And all our members, we take pride in that. And if anybody wants to come to Alberta, whether it’s to book a waterfowl hunt or a big game hunt, there’s a list of all outfitters in Alberta and I think we all hold that professional standard, we keep that close to our chest, and we take pride in that.

Ramsey Russell: Well, I’m glad you mentioned that, Rob, because speaking of which, we put an Alberta Professional Outfitter Society link in every episode right down below the description, and you can click that. And you all have actually got a list of member outfitters and all the different hunts that you could possibly dream of in Alberta. And so I’m glad you mentioned that little bit. Last question I’ve got today, and I hope everybody will weigh in, because you all are such a great team of folks. If there’s one thing that you want waterfowlers worldwide or hunters worldwide to know about Alberta’s hunting and outfitting culture, what would it be?

Lloyd McMahon: Well, when you come to Alberta, you’re going to see migration in the fullest. You’re going to see fresh birds never hunted, you’re going to see numbers coming into the fields. We sit there at times and just let the birds come in and we don’t shoot them because it is so unbelievable to see that mass of birds circling the field, landing in the decoys and more coming behind and just coming and coming. It is absolutely unbelievable. So, that’s what Alberta is to me.

Christopher Dumbleton: I believe Albertans are known for their hospitality, great attitudes, willingness to work with all types of people. And at the end of the day, when they say goodbye and shake their hands, they’re coming back, they’re your friend. All Albertans are just hospitable people and very friendly. You’re going to have a good time.

Corey Jarvis: Yeah. Like Chris said, it’s our hunters, when we’re first talking to them, they all say that it’s a bucket list and they want to do it one time. But once you come and do it one time, you can’t just do it one time, you keep coming back every year.

Christopher Dumbleton: They keep coming back. I’ve got hunters that have been with me for, since the beginning. The first group I ever booked are still coming to this day.

Rob Reynolds: We like to show off here in Alberta, and we do a good job at it.

Ramsey Russell: You all sure do. Anybody else?

We coined a slogan a while ago that it’s easy to get here, but it’s hard to leave. So I think that’s a good indication of what everybody said here, it’s a beautiful province, well managed, rich in resources

Corey Jarvis: Yeah. I want to add to, like, we coined a slogan a while ago that it’s easy to get here, but it’s hard to leave. So I think that’s a good indication of what everybody said here, it’s a beautiful province, well managed, rich in resources. And I think as a hunting community, we all need to step up, take part of some of the organizations out there and available that are doing good conservation work and trying to work towards protecting hunting and we’re happy to be a part and do our part here in Alberta and welcome anybody who wants to come and visit our beautiful province. So maybe you can share the link to our organization’s website or whatever you do, Ramsey. And yeah, we look forward to the next time when we have this opportunity again.

Ramsey Russell: Fantastic. Thank you.

Lloyd McMahon: I really like to thank you for letting us highlight Alberta and tell the people what we have up here.

Ramsey Russell: You’re welcome. I’m not exaggerating, Alberta’s one of my favorite places on earth. People ask me what my favorite hunt is, and I say the next one, which is the truth, because I don’t care where on earth you’re sitting, it’s something about daylight, not quite legal shooting time yet, it’s kind of like an unopened Christmas gift, you don’t know what the day’s going to bring. But Alberta is near and dear to my heart. And I want to thank each and every one of you all for coming on board today. You all brought a different perspective, and I want to thank APOS for what they do. I’ve said this to person plural, organizations, NGOs here in the United States that I do believe APOS is an apt model for what professional outfitting should be. I like the ethical standard, I like the giving back, I like the license and the bonded, the way that this group has taken a lot of input from all the different stakeholders in the province and throughout Canada and bringing some common sense to it, I just think it’s a great model for all of North America moving forward. So thank you all very much. And folks, thank you all for this episode of MOJO’s Duck Season Somewhere podcast where we’ve been meeting with members of the Alberta Professional Outfitter Society. The takeaway message to me, is it’s not just take – a lot of people look up at these outfitters, they’re all take, no give. No, it’s a whole lot of give that is affecting resident and non-resident hunters, it’s affecting freelancers and outfitters, it’s affecting the landowners, it is positively affecting the natural resources and the local communities. Isn’t that a great model for professional outfitting? Let me know your thoughts in the comments below. See you next time.

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