EP 586. Lonestar Outdoor: Hunting, Conservation, and Controversy

Ramsey Russell: Welcome back to MOJO’s Duck Season Somewhere podcast where today we’re going all the way down into Texas to interview my buddy, Cable Smith. Cable, how the heck are you?

Cable Smith: I’m doing great. I’m doing great, man. We’ve got turkey season rocking and rolling and it’s one of my favorite times of the year. It’s kind of breaks up that lull between the end of duck season and deer season. And we have plenty of feral hogs. I mean, we never run out of things to hunt here, but I love spring turkey hunting and I see you’ve got some fans on the wall back there.

Represented on that wall back there is all but one of the North American turkeys, I need to kill a Miriam’s one day

Ramsey Russell: I got a few on there, but I’m not a turkey hunter.  Represented on that wall back there is all but one of the North American turkeys, I need to kill a Miriam’s one day. But I’m not a turkey hunter, my son is the turkey hunter. I’ve shot those turkeys, but I’m just not mad at those turkeys, I can’t be. Introduce yourself to everybody listening that may not know who you are, Cable.

I actually went and got a degree in radio, TV, film and thought I wanted to do sports talk radio. But apparently everybody wanted to do that at that time.

Cable Smith: Yeah. So I actually went and got a degree in radio, TV, film and thought I wanted to do sports talk radio. But apparently everybody wanted to do that at that time. And so wife and I got married, moved to Texarkana and took my first job in radio there. And my boss, the station owner was like, oh, you have to host. He was like, well, do you like to hunt and fish? And I mean I grew up fishing, didn’t really grow up hunting, started doing that in college. Some of my buddies were like, hey, bring your dog, I was the only one that had a lab, they’re like, we’re going duck hunting. And I was like, duck hunting? I was like, I don’t even know what that is. But all right, I’ll try it. I had to wait tables for a couple weeks to save up and buy a pump action shotgun. Back then, I think they were like 180 bucks, not very expensive. And then I took the dog and we went duck hunting. And I told him, I was like, this dog hates fireworks, he doesn’t like loud noises, but he likes to swim, his name was Maverick. And they all sucked, apparently, at duck hunting too, because these ducks would come in and we’d all shoot and nothing would drop. Finally, by the grace of God, somebody shot a mallard. And I had the dog tied to the blind because he was trying to run off every time we’d shoot. And he saw that duck fall, and I let him off. And he went and got that duck and brought it back and dropped it at my feet. And I was like, oh, crap. All right, well, he likes it. I think it’s pretty cool. And I just never looked back. So my boss was like, yeah, you have to host this weekly hunting show called the Piney Woods Outdoors Show.

Ramsey Russell: Piney Woods Outdoors.

Cable Smith: Yeah. I was in East Texas, in Texarkana. And the economy crashed and I guess it was right after Obama was elected the first time, big recession. And a lot of our advertisers were like local automobile dealerships. And he was like, well, I can’t afford to keep you anymore. I was like, well, crap, we signed a year lease, so what am I going to do? I was like, well, I really – out of all the things I was doing there, which was like, play by play, and I had my sports talk show that I wanted to do. Again, this is small town radio. But the thing that I fell in love with was talking to people about the outdoors. And we moved back to Dallas and I actually started the Lone Star Outdoor show on my in laws dining room table.

Ramsey Russell: Really?

Cable Smith: Yeah. I mean, thank God for COVID, Zoom and this great technology came along and we can have meetings like this and see each other, but back then, I would just call, I’ll say, Phil Robertson over a landline. Mrs. K would pick up and be like, he’s hunting, he’ll be back in an hour, call back in an hour, I call back an hour. Phil would answer that. Now they’ve blown up to the point where you can’t even get a hold of them.

Ramsey Russell: You have to call their agent now.

Cable Smith: Yeah, but we were just recorded over the phone and you could go back and I think I have done an episode a week for 15 years now. And if you go back and listen to those early recordings, the sound quality is just like, oh, my God, who would listen to this?

Ramsey Russell: When I started this podcast, it was literally over an iPhone. I had a mic that would plug into an iPhone, and I just set it on the table and pointed at you, but you got to start somewhere, right? Going back to the beginning, I kind of get what led you to study. Well, I don’t. What steered you in college into getting into radio and television? You just want to be a sports talk radio?

Cable Smith: Yeah, I mean, I love sports. I still play –

Ramsey Russell: Is that something you want to do as a kid?

Cable Smith: I mean, I feel like that was the next best thing. If you couldn’t be a professional athlete, well, then you could talk about it for a living, right? Yeah, and I still obsessed with sports, so that was just kind of – I started out pursuing a business degree and I was like, I don’t want to wear a shirt and tie and get going to the corporate world and this, that and the other. So I changed my major and transferred from Baylor to North Texas, where they have a really good radio, TV, film program. So I actually, I guess, one of the few folks out there that has a podcast that actually like, pursued that. But podcast, that word didn’t exist when I started the show. I just said, hey, this is my radio show, if you missed it, you can check it out on my website or on iTunes.

Ramsey Russell: Lonestar Outdoor Show. When you started that 15 years ago, Cable, you go on a great duck hunt, you figure out what your dog’s for, he figured out what he was born for. You start chasing this down, it becomes a Lone Star outdoor show on your in laws. But when along the line did it transition into more of an outdoor advocacy? It’s not just, hey, we’re going to talk hunting and fishing, I just wanted to talk duck hunting, honestly. But man, the world’s not like that anymore. Was there an event in your life that just punched you and said, man, I can’t just talk about hunting and fishing, I’ve got to be an advocate for it.

Cable Smith: Yeah. I wouldn’t say one specific event. I think social media help drive that, just all the negativity associated with hunting. And I will say Ivan Carter once told me and he’s a famous big game hunter in Africa. And he does a lot of, he’s really shifted from being a full time PH over the last decade into full time advocacy and conservation. And he told me 30 years ago he’d get on the airplane and people would be like, what do you do for a living? And he would have a conversation, he’d tell him he was a dangerous game hunter and people thought that was really cool. And this was even 10 years ago when he told me this, he’s like, I don’t even tell people anymore if they ask, I just tell them something completely different because they get all butt hurt about, oh, you kill elephants or you take people lion hunting or this, that and the other. And I think that as a society we’ve just shifted towards like the term trophy hunting has become this negative moniker where it didn’t used to be that way.

Ramsey Russell: No.

Cable Smith: And I’m a trophy hunter. I mean, look at your wall, my wall looks very similar. Like, there’s a physical trophy which you put on the wall, there’s the experience which is equally as important part of the trophy and then there’s the food. So I don’t know, I just felt like we were climbing an uphill battle and we need people that are not afraid to say the truth. And I think a lot of hunters, a lot of influencers, even people with TV shows kind of, they’re afraid to stick their toe in that water of like politics, for example. That’s not me. And I tell any advertiser that I’m possibly going to work with, I’m like, look, if you are tepid about working with somebody that’s pretty aggressive on those issues, conservation, the second amendment, then I’m not your guy. Because you’re going to get one thing for me and that’s in your face, honesty. And if it hurts people’s feelings, I frankly don’t care.

Ramsey Russell: You bring up a great point, is that like myself, you’re a freelancer. We’re not accountable to some corporate entity that has to be woke, that has to tow the DEI line, that has all these societal weights on us. And I interview a lot of people that have to color within the lines and I get that, I used to be a federal government employee and I get that I have to color within those lines, but now I don’t. And it’s time to have an honest conversation like we’re having. Because have you ever wondered or given much thought to how did we get, using Ivan Carter as an example, how did we get from there to here? And we can see all the corporate television topics going around since Trump’s been elected. But how did we get as a society from just a man going out and hunting and sawing off the horns to now it’s some kind of political statement.

Cable Smith: Yeah.

Ramsey Russell: There’s some kind of live or die emotional volcano of line drawn over just going out and hunting.

Cable Smith: I think there’s two main things. While you and I use social media to drive our business, I think it’s a double edged sword and it gives anybody – all you have to do is have a cell phone and now you suddenly are an expert and have a voice. And it’s kind of a tribal thing and I don’t think, well, I know the majority of people are not anti-hunters, right? But they’re the ones that scream the loudest on social media and it’s what you see. So that’s one thing. And then the other thing I think is that over the last century we’ve become completely detached to the process of where our food comes from. People don’t have to get their hands bloody. They just go to the grocery store or even worse, now you just go to the fake meat aisle if you’re a vegan or vegetarian or whatever, now they’ve got all this fake meat. It’s chemical crap. Like you don’t even know what’s in that. But I know it didn’t come from an animal and it’s not natural and it’s not good for you. But yeah, I think social media is a problem and I think that people just, they don’t go out and kill their own food anymore and they don’t see that and it’s not a visceral experience and they just think it’s all bad.

Ramsey Russell: And take it a step back, take it just a step back. Why don’t they go out and kill their food anymore? I mean it’s maybe access, maybe they’re just not access for the regular guy to do it anymore. I mean, I’m an old guy, but now, well, it’s like even as kind of the older guy in the crowd, it seems like on social media I can remember my kids when they were little boys, grade school, middle school, playing baseball and me having to go on Labor Day and tell the coach, no, we’re not going to practice today. He saw it as a free practice because they weren’t in school. I saw that’s opening day of dove season, my kids won’t be here. But all their teammates showed up. They were the only two that got that had to get pulled out of practice, go dove hunting with daddy. So even at my age, there’s a lot of my adult peers that just don’t hunt, so their kid don’t hunt, so their kids aren’t going to hunt. And it’s becoming like they just don’t understand it anymore. But now here’s the crazy thing about this social media and all these voices out here is now it’s like, okay, so it’s us, the hunters against them, the non-hunters, and especially the anti-hunters. 90% let’s say they represent, or 80% they represent. But now within our own ranks, it’s not just the non-hunters or anti-hunters criticizing hunters, it’s hunters themselves criticizing the way you hunt or how you hunt or what you hunt or how you poach or your behavior at all. And we can all think of examples of something somebody posted online that I don’t think represents hunting.

Cable Smith: Yeah, for sure.

But I’m seeing a movement right now. I’m thinking of one account on social media

Ramsey Russell: But I’m seeing a movement right now. I’m thinking of one account on social media. I’m not going to say his account name, but he’s completely anonymous. Million dollar question is who this guy is because he is trolling hunters about their behavior. And I’ve just recently seen him criticizing the 3Rs Recruit, Retain, Reactivate. Because I don’t get that. Because we’re in a crowdsource funded conservation model. And then there’s one of the famous podcasters brother, who is notoriously against posting on social media.

Cable Smith: I’ve had Matt on my show and that dude is, he’s too far gone. Like, he posted recently, it was just him videoing himself, he’s walking around, I think he’s got one of his, what does he have? He has llamas that he uses to pack with. And it’s just him and his llama. And he’s like, I was just thinking all this stuff Trump’s doing, like, if you’re out there and you’re a young person and you’re pursuing a degree in wildlife management right now, it’s like, if it’s not too late to change your major, you just go ahead and change it, it’s not worth it. I’m like, this is your message now? And that is a huge problem within our community, is people pursuing these degrees that are coming at it from an activist standpoint instead of the way it used to be, which is folks that are invested in hunting and fishing pursuing these degrees because they love the outdoors. Well, so here’s this dude saying, no, all you hunters and anglers that are interested in wildlife management to pick something else. Okay, great. So now that void’s just going to be filled with more of the activist yahoos like that are going to continue to erode our rights. Like, what a dumb thing to say.

Ramsey Russell: Exactly. I agree. And I don’t like to give a voice to stuff like that, I do kind of like to live my own little echo chamber because it’s the way, as a wildlife major myself, I got a degree in forestry, which is the basis of wildlife management. And it just makes sense that way. You know what I’m saying? And almost every biologist we’ve ever had, in fact every biologist we’ve ever had on from Canada, throughout the United States and around the world, they’re all hook and bullet biologists. They got their origins by being hunters themselves and wanting to make the world a better place for lack of a better word.

Cable Smith: But sadly, they seem to be the minority. Like, if you look at the statistics, the majority of folks going into university programs right now pursuing a wildlife management degree are not hunters and anglers.

Ramsey Russell: No, we had a conversation one time about that. And when I graduated Mississippi State University back in the day, there were 60 of us, 5 dozen people about the size of my high school class. And the last statistic I heard at Mississippi State, there were, and it’s no longer a forestry program, it’s broken off in its own little field. And there’s 365 of them just in that one university and 90% neither hunt nor fish. They grew up watching Animal Planet type stuff and just identify with the animals and don’t want to wear suit and tie to work, want to get out and interact in nature and stuff like that. And I think it’s important, Delta Waterfowl has a program that is actually going into the universities and introducing them to duck hunting. And it’s okay that you don’t want to be a duck hunter, but you ought to kind of sort of understand how this system works in North America to at least when you’re out there trying to wrestle with where am I going to get my budget? You understand the value we hunters bring to it?

Cable Smith: Yeah. I mean, who’s going to replace all that funding? That’s at least people think there’s like some magical conservation money tree right? Where, we’ll just get more money. Well, no, and the government doesn’t want us. They’re not going to try to front that loss if hunters just went away. Like that’s what they can’t wrap their minds around is all of the activism, all the anti-hunting stuff really is just shooting holes in the funding of the thing that they say that they love. Oh, we love animals so we don’t want to kill them. Okay, where are you replacing hunters as far as a funding component? Like you’re not. So to me, it’s the biggest joke their entire existence. That is really, if you look at it, is just to defund the thing that drives conservation.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah.

Cable Smith: It doesn’t make any sense, right?

Ramsey Russell: Yeah. Have you ever had any dealings with anti-hunters personally? I mean, you’ve been in this industry for 15 years, have you ever had any confrontations?

Cable Smith: You asked me before we started, like, other than social media and no, there’s always people like, I hope your kid gets run over by a bus, just sickos. But I would say the most interaction that I have with people potentially like that is just traveling. Like they see that you have a shotgun case or a rifle or a bow or whatever at the airport and they start looking at you and maybe they strike up a conversation or some of the funnier ones are when you’re going through the security checkpoint and you’ve got dead animals in your carry on bag, whether it’s ducks or – one time I had my entire mountain lion in a little carry on cooler and they’re looking at it through the scanner and they’re like, what the hell is that? And I’m like, do you really want to know? I’ll tell you. And they’re like, yeah, it’s a mountain lion. And lady was like, why would you kill a mountain lion? And so I didn’t have time to explain it, the A’s and B’s to her, but you could tell she wasn’t very happy about it. But no, I guess I don’t put myself in a position to like get into situations where I’m like dealing face to face with anti-hunters.

Ramsey Russell: But you put yourself out there though. I mean you’re in social media, you’re on the airwaves and people find that stuff. Like for example, one of the biggest conflicts I ever have with an anti-hunter is we kicked off a hunt in Netherlands, Cable, it’s been 10, 12 years ago, it’s been a while ago. And long story short, the anti-hunters had closed the goose season and the migratory geese. Because Holland is such a perfect goose habitat, migratory geese, some of them started staying over. Then they bed up a resident goose population and began to do what resident geese do, they proliferated. And we can look at the midcontinent population of snow geese, we can look at these resident honkers, especially up in the northern tier. And once geese hit a critical mass, hunting doesn’t stop them. It doesn’t stop them. It’s not like shooting fish in a barrel. They’re uncontrollable once they hit that critical mass. But nonetheless they began to eat these little non-corporate, these little 5^th generation dairy farms out of house and home. Imagine so many Eurasian wigeons and so many mute swans and so many barnacle geese or greylag geese, so many of them on a landscape that you can no longer produce enough forage to continue farming dairy products.

Cable Smith: Yeah, that’s crazy.

Ramsey Russell: They are literally depredating these clover fields, these wheat fields out of housing home. And the government began to issue depredation permits. And we went over very excited about it. It was a great hunt, still is whether it’d been through the year 2025, they banned the e-caller finally all these years later. But at the time that we were going over there, I brought a couple of outdoor writers, well who the hell knew, who drained the Dutch anti-hunters read hunting magazines. I woke up one morning, I have not posted on Twitter since this went down almost 7, 8, 9, 10 years ago. I woke up, my Twitter was upside down. It was like exploding. It was melting. And it was all, like you tag a bunch of your friends and a bunch of your groups and they all start weighing in.

Cable Smith: Oh yeah.

Ramsey Russell: And taking off on you and we just had to take it down. We’ve sold the hunt if you know, you know. People call us up, we sell it because it’s an amazing hunting experience. But I mean it was confrontation, death threats. Death threats. People are going to come over here and kill me, you know what I’m saying? And kill my kids and do this and do that. Well, it was like I explained to my outfitter, I said, we’ve got the Castle Doctrine in Mississippi, you all can’t even own handguns, so if somebody wants to come over here and try to club me with a wooden shoe, bring it baby. You know what I’m saying? But nonetheless, and then going to Australia, Australia was more of today’s skirmish in anti-hunting, well, I guess Netherlands was too. Although I have had some face to face confrontations in Holland with anti-hunters. And news flash update, I was over there this past summer and they’re still talking about the American. I go, Americans, I thought, I misunderstood over the road noise. He goes, no, Ramsey, not Americans, the American. You’re the American. You’re more famous than Elvis over here in anti-hunting circles only not near as likable as how it was explained to me. But Australia was a real interesting thing for me because I did get involved. I did start interviewing and publicizing some of the battle over there and some of the stuff going on, putting it in social media. And that was the real diabolical part of it, the cowardly, faceless part of anti-hunting. And I always go back to Cecil the Lion. Some kid, some college kid from England names his science project, names his thesis, his data point, names it Cecil, it’s lawfully killed. But the anti-hunters hijacked the narrative on social media to where my grandmother, my mother, everybody that read it was against the poor guy that legally harvested that lion.

Cable Smith: Yeah.

Ramsey Russell: And then when the facts came out, the story was over, it was too late, you know what I’m saying? But everybody crucified that poor guy. And I think the anti-hunters learned something from that. And it’s frustrating to me, it’s okay. It’s like, let’s have an honest conversation. You like animals, well, I like animals. I like ducks, so well that I want to see them obliterate sunshine when they fly over the house. You know what I’m saying? I really like them, I want more and more. How can we build on that common interest? You don’t hunt them, I do. Let’s move on and make the world a better place with a lot – they don’t want to go there.

Cable Smith: No. In the Cecil the lion fiasco is probably the most damaging thing I’ve seen in 15 years of doing this as far as setting hunting back, certainly trophy hunting. And I think really the worst thing Trump did in his first term was banned the import of some of those trophies lions. I think that was a major misstep from him, but I don’t see that happening this go around now. I think that’s going to get reversed. I think we’re going to make headway with wolves and grizzlies delisting that was like one of the last things the Biden administration did on the way out was make sure that the wolves stayed listed. Judge had said, no, they need to be delisted. And then of course, you get another circuit court judge in there and he’s like, nope, wolves are protected again. And the Great Lake States, dude, I’ve talked to, I was in an Illinois whitetail camp with some guys from Wisconsin and they had like a hunting camp in the north woods up there. And they told me, dude, we don’t even go anymore because the wolves have wiped out the deer. You see wolf tracks everywhere, wolf scat, very rarely see a deer. It’s killed local towns, like seasonal towns that just depend on hunters coming in, small towns like all the businesses boarded up, restaurants no longer in business and you have to think about. And I look at it like in here in Texas and this doesn’t have to do with wolves, but like quail used to be this massive thing everybody would load up. And I missed the heyday of quail hunting too young, but people would load up and go to go west and you would see talking to old timers, there’s like the whole town would have blaze orange on and you’d see dog boxes on everybody’s pickup. And for 3 months, we would pump up these local economies and they depended on that. Well, the quail are not, they’re not gone, but it’s not the same thing. And I think the quail hunters, like, if you think about hunting tradition, I think that’s the one that’s dying, really is, it’s a good quail lease in Texas is more expensive than a deer lease these days. So it’s unfortunate, but I don’t know. Did you have a lot of bobwhites growing up?

Ramsey Russell: Yeah, there was loose covet around, they’ve been out of the state of Mississippi for a long time the best bobwhite hunt I’ve ever had was down in Texas, the years I spent down there working on a ranch. And I hit it for a couple of years, I was working in college closer to the border than to San Antonio. But it was the 4^th and 5^th consecutive growing season of above annual precipitation. And the Bob Weissen and the scale quail were just through the roof. And I just happened to have a springer and just out of all the dogs in the world that could have wandered up to the ranch was another springer. And then I could walk out through those pair of flats with those 2 dogs and boy shoot some quail.

Cable Smith: I love it. I think it’s so fun. Yeah, quail hunting is amazing. And I think that is, I think why that sport particularly is in grave danger is because of access. I mean there’s not a lot of great public hunting for quail. I’ve heard Arizona has some in New Mexico, but I mean Texas, it’s all privately owned and so at that point you’ve priced out like younger kids that might be interested in it and maybe interested in getting a bird dog, it’s just like so cost prohibitive that it’s kind of sad.

Ramsey Russell: Well, see I connect these quail and wolves for that matter and it’s in the same thing. And let’s come from some standpoint of a non-hunter perspective is. But I’ll start by asking this question, what do you think compels these anti-hunters emotions?

Cable Smith: Yeah, it’s just a visceral reaction of why would someone kill apex predator? Why do you need to kill a bear or a wolf or a mountain lion? Well, what makes that animal any more important than a deer or a sparrow for that matter? Anything, right? To me it’s just another animal. And I look at it, I don’t think they can look at it through the lens of data. Like what is the population? Well, okay, here’s our estimate of what the population is. What’s our goal from a management standpoint? And I think as a hunting community, as long as we don’t go above whatever X biologist recommends as far as take of a species, then it’s a renewable resource, but I don’t know.

I think humanity wants wildness, I think we crave it, I think it’s how we evolved is in nature and I think we want it.

Ramsey Russell: There’s so many people on the continent, there’s so many people, and so little habitat, increasingly little just wild landscape. And I think humanity wants wildness, I think we crave it, I think it’s how we evolved is in nature and I think we want it. So I lump anti-hunters, the ones I’ve met, the ones I’ve had dealing with to a single person, I lump them as generally unhappy people. I think they walk around hating life because they hate themselves because some genetic code is broken and that’s their connection to nature.

Cable Smith: How do you know they hate themselves? Their blue hair will tell you.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah, that’s a good point. Well, I mean I go back just to something as basic as, I’ve always felt that if you’ve ever been disrespected by somebody, I’ll show you somebody that first and foremost disrespects himself. They have no self-respect. But I believe you have self-respect, I believe that respect for others is the highest form of self-respect. And so I just see that and social media man is good about tearing down that line of respect. But going back to the wolves, here’s the problem with endangered species as it’s implemented, the Endangered Species Act as it’s implemented, if we truly had a genuine natural ecosystem, like let’s just say the antis want us to have, wolves existed and they need to exist because it’s natural and they were here first. Okay, well if there’s wolves on the landscape that kill all the deer, what happens to the wolves? They begin to self-regulate their populations declines. Well, but we’re not in a genuine natural ecosystem anymore where wolves live. We’re in a genuine artificial ecosystem. Therefore, if the wolves decline, what does the government do? Put more wolves on the landscape? It doesn’t make sense. It’s bizarre.

Cable Smith: No. And it all comes from the left. And that’s my biggest hang up. We’re in this fight right now as a hunting community of you have the people that value public land over hunting rights in the second amendment. And I’m going to put my right to hunt first and foremost.

Ramsey Russell: Yes.

Cable Smith: Hey, I mean the second amendment and the right to hunt those things are 1A and 1B. Second Amendment is probably the most important right, I mean that protects the first amendment gives us the freedom to say what we want in this country. You look over at Europe right now where they’re imprisoning grandparents for something they said on social media because it offended someone. Well, they don’t have a first Amendment and they damn sure don’t have a second amendment. But those go hand in hand. But if you said, what’s more important to you, Cable Smith, your right to go out here and hike and be in nature or your right to go hunting? I’m going to say my right to go hunting. Like, hiking’s cool, but I want to be hiking with a shotgun in my hand, looking for grouse or with a bow, hunting elk, whatever it is. I mean, I like bird watching. I grew up in the outdoors, he wasn’t a hunter, but we did a lot of camping. We had this Birds of North America book and whenever we would go on family vacation or do whatever, go on a soccer tournament to Nashville or something, and along the way you’d see all these different birds. He’s like, oh, I don’t see that one in Texas. And we would mark the day that we saw it and where we saw it in that book, I still have the book. So I love birds, right? But I want to go experience nature on the hunt. And I don’t put access above my hunting rights because the Democrats introduce 99.9% of all anti-hunting legislation. Like, going back to the wolves, who’s putting wolves on the landscape in Colorado? Well, a far left leaning Democrat who’s married to a man and he’s a man, right? Like, and guess who’s the one? And I say that because it’s his husband who’s behind the whole thing. The guy’s a massive animal rights activist. You’re not seeing that from Republicans. Republicans are not the greatest on public land, and that’s why we have this fight going on with all these western guys right now. And I felt Ryan Bussy, who’s a complete tool, he ran for governor of Montana, got his ass kicked, he got like 36% of the vote, thank God. But he told me in social media one time recently, he’s like, you’re from Texas, go back to your high fences, you don’t have any say in how we manage things up here. I’m like, okay, what an elitist piece of crap attitude. Because you’re over there fighting for public lands and I love public lands, I love them, I don’t want to see them go away. And as a conservative, that’s one thing that we’re kind of soft on right now. But I was like, by the way, dude, I own those public lands as much as you do. So what an elitist attitude. Like, you’re from Texas, you don’t have a say. Well, if they’re public lands, then that means I own them too, jackass.

Ramsey Russell: That’s right.

Cable Smith: And a lot of guys are like, I’m tired of seeing Texas plates at my access points. Like, well, okay, so that mindset to me says you would just assume the state control the land, right? Because you’re already acting like it’s yours. But if it’s federally owned public land, then I own it as much as you. And I’m not saying that I deserve or non-residents deserve the same tag allocation as the residents, I don’t believe that. I believe they should have preference. But it’s still my land, right? So some of it, you can’t just shut it off completely to non-residents because at that point then why is it even federal land?

Ramsey Russell: Well, I tell you what, talk about that public land, we all own it. To me that goes to the heart of anti-hunting movement in the United States, here’s why. You know there’s a big movement underfoot right now, because I’m going to talk waterfowl and we’ll talk all wildlife. All wildlife is owned by the state, so to speak, right? It’s owned by the government. We buy a license against that ownership to go out and enjoy them whether it’s on private land or public, that’s the way the system’s laid up to go back to Napoleonic type lines.

Cable Smith: And it’s the best system in the world.

Ramsey Russell: It’s a great system. But herein’s diabolical. There’s a major anti-hunting. They’re not out there at the boat ramp, they get their ass beat. They’re not there at the boat ramp protesting, they’re not out there riding through our decoys, they’re very discreet doing this. But here’s the argument, and it does have merit is we all own the white tailed deer, the bobwhite quail, we all own this wildlife on the landscape. All Americans, all 330 million Americans have ownership in the same way we own those public lands, Cable. So why are the state DNRs in the federal government? Why are they maximum sustained yield managing these wildlife to satisfy the minority which are hunters? 900,000 duck hunters. That makes no sense at all. Or the white tailed deer, that makes no sense at all. Why is their entire budget being catering to this minority instead of to us who don’t want to kill them, who don’t hunt them. And they’re making headway, they’re litigating. And right now what they’re litigating is, I tell you what let’s do, let’s just remove the firearm industry and remove the hunter equation from your budgets, now you have to serve all of us. Never mind who’s going to fund it. If hunter don’t fund it, let’s not talk about that. But you understand where I’m getting with this.

Cable Smith: Oh, yeah, you’re right.

Ramsey Russell: They’re using that public trust doctrine against us.

Cable Smith: Yeah.

Ramsey Russell: No, they are not bringing a solution for funding conservation. Because I think to the average, I really think to the average person, it’s kind of like having stars in the sky, whether you can see them or not on a cloudy night, you know they’re there. Well, I mean, I don’t know how many deer on the landscape, I don’t know how many ducks we have, I don’t know anything about anything, but I know they’re there and they’re not being shot by mean old hunter, so I’m happy. I can go to Starbucks in downtown San Francisco and live comfortably knowing that they’re still there and they’re not being bothered like in a Disney movie.

Cable Smith: Right. But that’s the thing, for so long you heard the left say live and let live, right? Like, okay, then why are you trying to tell me what I can and can’t do? Like, I don’t care who you marry or what, none of that stuff matters to me. I care if you mutilate children, right? Like, if you want to cut your wiener off when you’re an adult, by all means, you have one life to live, I’m going to say I think it’s weird, but hey, this is America. You can do whatever you want, cut that wiener off. But when you put it on, when you put it on this pedestal and then you start indoctrinating children, okay, well, I’m a father, I have 3 kids, I have a problem with that. But yeah, it’s not live and let live, it’s completely the opposite.

Ramsey Russell: Why can’t it be a 2 way street?

And so that’s going back to social media being a double edged sword. Well, social media might be our biggest problem, right?

Cable Smith: Well, why do they care? Going back to the person at Starbucks in Seattle or wherever Portland, why would they ever even think about that? Why do they care? And maybe that’s because they see it on social media. And so that’s going back to social media being a double edged sword. Well, social media might be our biggest problem, right? Because they see it, it’s everywhere and we’re not shy about it. I love a good tailgate grip and grin. I love a good strap of ducks, hanging from a mesquite tree, whatever. It doesn’t bother me and I’m not going to shy away from that. But that is, I think that is a huge problem for us. It’s like how do we get our messaging across without looking like the bloodthirsty scumbags they try to paint us to be? But you have seen this movement of preservation. Like Deb Howland, who was the former Secretary of the Interior, she was a complete preservationist. She closed off millions of acres of hunter access for no reason. Took away shooting on millions of acres, like just recreational shooting for no reason. There was no conflict. Nothing had come up like in Utah, bears ears, where they had any grounds to warrant closing it off to recreational shooting. But hey, how can we put a dent in the firearm owning community and hunting at the same time? Well, let’s start closing this stuff off and just let the wildlife manage themselves. But like you said, we don’t live in that environment anymore. There’s 330 million people and so that’s our job to manage all species responsibly, right?

Ramsey Russell: Yeah. That reminds me, I’m thinking of the Colorado granola locked off in the wilderness area, no hunter access, that’s just the scenario I imagine as you talk about that. And you had a guest on your podcast one time, Brant McDuffie wrote the Shotgun Conservationist and he brought up a great point when we were talking about how disturbance is disturbance. So you take this park or something up in Colorado, will mountain bikes and camping and rock climbing and all that kind of stuff, accessing this, it disturbs the wildlife, same as hunting. It’s a very fine line between the two. Public use is public use. Why can’t we all be happy? Why does it have to be a one way street?

Cable Smith: I don’t know. But I don’t think there’s an answer to that question. Like I think this is the time that we exist in right now and we are facing like the biggest struggle in certainly our lives and I don’t see it getting any easier. So thank God we have this administration in right now and we’re going to have ESA reform that putting animals on the endangered species list in perpetuity was not what that thing was designed for. And so when you have biologists saying, hey, grizzlies are recovered in Greater Yellowstone, actually, we have too many now. We’re seeing more human grizzly conflict. We need to remove some of these bears. Okay, and then you have, going back to Democrats then you have a Democrat judge. Every time it’s a Democrat judge, it’s like, nope, can’t do that. Listen, in Wyoming, they drew the tags, they were having a hunting season, this was like 7 years ago. And then they shut it down for no reason. Just because a judge was like, nah, it hurts my feelings or maybe he got some – I mean, all PETA does is just in HSUS, that’s the thing. These organizations don’t give any money back to conservation, they just raise money to sue state wildlife agencies are the FEDs. And then the FEDs, because of the broken system, have to pay back all their legal fees.

Ramsey Russell: I know, isn’t that crazy? But do you know why these species get listed and stay in perpetuity? And it’s not because of the biologist, it’s because of these federal agencies. I mean, it’s money. A lot of these federal government agencies, if not all of them, are like bloated ticks. And look, if somebody worked for the federal government a long time, I know that’s how the system works, man. You give me $100,000 budget or a million dollar budget, and I don’t spend it all, yeah, I don’t get that much next year. So I’m going to spend a little bit more on paper to get more and get more. That’s how the system works. So if I get funded to list the gray wolf as endangered and then I ever delist them, guess what? I don’t get any funding, now what do I do?

Cable Smith: Yeah. I saw whenever these, all these cuts came down, when the DOGE first started slashing stuff, people that worked for US Fish & Wildlife Service or National Park System, some of them were laid off. But I heard this great example, it was from an intern, and she was talking to her boss and her boss was like, okay, we got to get our budget put together, make sure you put those two boats, we need those two boats on there. And she said, we have 6 boats out there that just sit there that no one ever uses. And she goes, yeah, I know, but if we don’t get 2 new ones, we won’t get the money for next year or the next cycle or whatever. So now we’re going to have 8 boats that we don’t use and then that’s the bloated tick that you were describing, right?

Ramsey Russell: That’s it. You and I both work in a field. It’s like we preach to the choir, we have this talk and everybody listening is probably a hunter. How do we get outside of our own echo chamber? How do we use these platforms, be it social media or podcast, to get beyond the echo chamber? I think that’s the greatest liability or the greatest ceiling sitting on top of us right now, the weight on our shoulders, ball and chain and hunting, is the fact that we’re all just talking to each other instead of out to the battleground, which is not the anti-hunters, forget them that are lost calls, but just the average non-hunter.

Cable Smith: Yeah, well, and I think that the deck is stacked against us. For example, my content is shadow banned to the point where nobody that’s a non-hunter would ever even see it.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah.

Cable Smith: So they have purposely handcuffed us to make sure that we don’t get our message out there. Me specifically, I mean, and I know when it happened, it was leading up to the 2020 election and I was very, I mean, I told you at the beginning, I don’t care if it hurts your feelings that I’m voting for Donald Trump, I don’t care. I’m a conservative and they don’t like that and they don’t like dead animals and they don’t like guns. So whatever they did, they completely shut off. I mean, I had 150,000 Instagram followers and it was growing like clockwork and then all of a sudden they just turned the faucet off and what, 5 years later, I have 170,000 so 20,000 followers in 5 years, where before that it was like you’re getting 4,000 or 5,000 followers a month.

Ramsey Russell: I know exactly when my shadow band went into full effect and full on effect and that was January 2024, I traveled for 3 days to get to Tasmania. I hunted for 2 days, shot cape barren geese, which is rare. And boy, you know the word trophy and the word rare that triggers those people.

Cable Smith: Oh yeah.

Ramsey Russell: And it’s rare only because there’s a relatively small amount of earth you can hunt them. But where they exist, they are again like the geese and Holland, eating farmers out of house at home. There’s so many of them, they foul the water where the cattle and sheep can’t drink, right? And they’ve got to be hunted, the Cape barren goose. And I posted it up, coming back, here they come, boy. Australian anti-hunters, here they come. And they’re bringing the posse with them all the anti-hunters. Well, I got 3 days to travel back home, in and out of airports, I have nothing, absolutely nothing to do but respond. I don’t have anything else to do. I’m sitting at airport bored for 8 hours, I have nothing to do but egg them on. And they finally stopped. It’s like they all got on a text message and stopped, went radio silence. Like they all emailed and texted each other and said quit responding, but tag his account, flag his account, report is account. And the way the algorithm is, it’s not like a court of law, hear my side, hear your side. I don’t have a side. And it’s like they put my account, which was booming, it’s like the meta put it in a coffee can, buried it 6 foot deep in a hole, covered it with concrete and lay it on top, walked away and forgot about it, it’s there.

Cable Smith: And you have no recourse.

Ramsey Russell: No recourse. And it’s so bad, I tried to appeal and I tried to do this and I tried to do that, but every time I would kind of play by their rules, they just keep – it’s like really and truly, I would have to delete every single photo I’ve ever posted on my Instagram. And when I just middle fingered them and said, screw this, I am who I am and I’m not changing. And I went back and just pop, undid everything. Well, there was a photo that was flagged for violating community standards and it was literally an iPhone snapshot of 20-30 people showed up, opening day of duck season at my camp, grown men, granddaddies, daddies, kids, grandkids sitting around there camouflaged, no guns, no alcohol, no drugs, no nothing, just men huddled around fixing to cut cars, to go to duck blind. And that right there, just that picture of 20 or 30 people huddled up in camouflage violated community standards. I’m listening to Joe Rogan one day because Zuckerberg’s on there talking about teaching his kids the importance of hunting on his $400 million estate in Hawaii and how animal, and I’m like, I’m yelling, saying, then why are we all shadow banned? Why is this? How does this world exist? Where’s that coming from, even? But anyway, it is what it is. I mean, the world at large, the powers that be, have put us on mute. And here gets the crazy thing, the craziest thing in the world is that every single person in marketing in the outdoor space right now, they want to see metrics on social media. That’s a driving force, what are your metrics on social media? Yeah, well, what does it matter? I mean, what does it even matter? It’s almost like that genuine artificial marketing anymore we have no control. Isn’t that crazy that we have – you want to see metrics on social media, but we have absolutely no control whatsoever over that outlet. It’s being muted by other powers that are against guns and hunting and anything but a woke ass agenda.

Cable Smith: Yeah. I got in trouble again on Facebook because actually, Facebook, I stopped really investing in Facebook probably about 5 or 6 years ago because I already had been shadow banned or whatever. My engagement was crap, you’re sitting there with 100,000 whatever, followers, like 5 people like your posts. It’s like, my kid just shot his first deer. This should get like a thousand likes just like that. I mean, and I just know, because I’ve been doing this for so long, like, that should have been something that everybody saw and everybody liked. And so they had the faucet turned off on Facebook. And then somehow I got out of jail and the page went from 100,000 to 270,000 in like a year and a half. Well, then they shut it off again, and now it’s back down to how it was. And I got a notification that one of my posts had been flagged for violating community standards, where I do a March Madness bracket for fun every year, invite all my followers, and I do a giveaway. And I had partnered with Vortex to give away a scope, just a rifle scope.

Ramsey Russell: A rifle scope, yeah.

Cable Smith: And they flagged this. I got a notification 3 weeks ago that my account was in, it had a threat of being terminated because of this post that I made 3 years ago. There was a scope giveaway it wasn’t even a gun. But yeah, they flagged it. And going back to there’s no recourse. Like, there’s no one to contact. So trying to appeal it through the oversight board and I never even heard back. So as it stands, no one’s seeing my stuff because of a post I made 3 years ago. I don’t know if that was the algorithm, but I know there’s times where there’s people that are going out and just trying to cause trouble for me, whether they work at Meta or if it’s just some activist going through my stuff and then reporting me essentially.

Ramsey Russell: Well, that’s just it. Every time that happens, I just imagine some blue haired fairy with piercing, sitting in a black hole with the glow of a computer hitting her and just singling me out. But it’s really not like that. It’s bigger, more diabolical. Two interesting things about the shadow band. One, I went to the UK this year and it was almost like a vacation hunt. It wasn’t commercial, I wasn’t working with outfitters, I wasn’t working with clients, I just went over there with some friends, some new friends that invited me into their world and I had such an amazing time. I was talking to my wife on the phone, she goes, are you coming home? I don’t want to. I had so much fun over there, more than I ever dreamed of having. But one of the things we did, we went out and shot a – I met an old, I mean the godfather of modern day punt gunning. Well, there’s 4 dozen maybe in the entire UK that still punt gun hunt. And we went out and I got a short course in punt gunning and we went out and pulled the trigger on this cannon and I posted it and I thought to myself, as I’m putting it together, this post, I’m thinking, well, this may be the one that gets me booted off. I will tell you this, the closest I’ve been to Instagram jail was down in Peru and I met a family, a guy, a man, whatever, but he was a former matador and he put on an exhibition bullfight which was, I’ll be honest with you, the first. I mean, I was sitting on ground level watching this bullfight go down. Everything but the killing him, because he was a breeder and it was a little disturbing. I mean, for the first time I’d ever seen one. And then we went and watched his – he put on the rubber gloves and the man raises fighting cocks, I’d never seen that either. But man, it’s like the first thing the conquistadors brought to the new world when they conquered it was the bullfights, it precedes Christ. It’s deal to them. So it’s very cultural and I’m all about including all everybody’s cultural stuff. And I posted that up on Instagram years ago and oh boy, did I wake up to some nasty emails. So when I posted this punt gun, I said, well, this may be the one, but how can I not post this? This is too cool.

Cable Smith: Yeah.

Ramsey Russell: And it was so engaged, so many people engaged and liked and shared and commented on kaboom, that cannon blast that it was like it busted through the offensive line.

Cable Smith: Yeah.

Ramsey Russell: And my account exploded momentarily.

Cable Smith: Once in a while we get one like that.

Ramsey Russell: But it goes to the point, the best defense is a good offense. And man, we hunters ought to be engaging a whole lot each other a whole lot more, not in fighting, but engaging a lot more to beat down that algorithm back. If we’re just glancing, going, that’s a cool photo, but not liking it, not sharing it, not engaging it, not commenting, the algorithm wins. So that’s one way we could work together and then –

Cable Smith: I agree with you 100% there. I think a lot of people’s egos prevent that.

Ramsey Russell: It prevents that. Isn’t that crazy?

Cable Smith: Yeah.

Ramsey Russell: You know what’s worse than now, I’ve always said this and it’s the truth, Cable, the only thing worse than going out on a slow morning duck hunt is listening to somebody beat the brakes off of the next volley over, that eats it a man. And I think that does have a lot to do with our ego. And I think we’re all in the same lifeboat, we got to get over it, and the best way we can help hunting and social media to beat back this anti-hunting algorithm is just to start engaging, let the ego go and start engaging everything in hunting and showing everybody some love and telling the algorithm, oh hey, this is pretty cool stuff, we get a lot more engagement when we share it and open it up to everybody. But the other thing I was going to share about the shadow band is, went down to Mexico recently and I don’t know, it’s just something about the timing of it. And I don’t know, I was a little tired being on the road so much, and I hunted, but since then, I really haven’t posted much. And it’s funny how, I mean, I don’t think I made a post in a week or two, and that algorithm beat my door down, post, come on, let’s put you in time out. I mean, and it’s like every time I wake up, I’ve got 20 or 30 or 40 new followers. It’s getting anxious, it’s want me to engage, and I’m like, no, you all are in time out now, man. Because I’ve got this podcast. And thank God there’s no algorithms crawling around telling somebody what they can listen to, what they can’t. When you started your Lone Star Outdoor show, was it ever, like, I hate to say real radio, but was it ever on, like, old radio?

Cable Smith: Oh, yeah.

Ramsey Russell: What was that administration FAA or what? What was it that, controls the airwaves where you can’t say cuss words and stuff?

Cable Smith: Yeah, that’s it. And so I don’t tell anyone when I interview them, they can’t cuss. But the worst is when you interview Special Ops guys, like Seals, Rangers.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah.

Cable Smith: They don’t have a filter. And so I have to go back and I bleep out every time they say the S word or F word.

Ramsey Russell: Oh, you have to.

Cable Smith: Oh, yeah.

Ramsey Russell: Okay.

Cable Smith: And so it airs on, like, 20 radio stations every weekend. And then I put the podcast up on Monday, if you missed it or whatever. And now more people listen to it as a podcast than they do on terrestrial radio. But I still have to play by those FAA guidelines.

Ramsey Russell: I’m blessed by streaming and I don’t cuss much on my show, I don’t. Because my mama may be listening, you know what I’m saying. I mean, I don’t know. I know for a fact –

Cable Smith: I don’t either, because I don’t want to have to go back and beat myself out.

Ramsey Russell: But I’ve had people come on here and say some pretty strong language, but that’s fine, that’s who they are, and we’re not subject to those regulations in as much as I know. But now you talk about the Special Ops folks, I live in a duck blind a lot and duck blinds and hunting camps, let’s say really kind of sort of are the last bashing of free speech and non wokeness. I mean, you can say and do whatever you want to do in a duck blind, you know what I’m saying? You can be your true self and just let go and I’m not sitting in a corporate meeting. And one time I was hunting with some young men over in North Carolina and my wife gets on to me all the time about my language because I spend too much time in that unfiltered world, you know?

Cable Smith: Yeah.

Ramsey Russell: And like one time I had this dog, it was a springer and she hadn’t been out in a while and she was in heat, but the male wasn’t. The males who I usually hunted with my male spring briar. Well, with her in heat, he was acting wonky. I mean, he was running around pushing ducks out of the way, couldn’t smell him, his head was on one thing. So I brought her out and she was wild as a spring hair that morning. And boy, did that dog get in there for. Well, my buddy didn’t tell me that the guy he invited was a deacon of a Baptist church. I would GD this and GD that and I mean, that was a GD dog that morning, I’m going to tell you right now, son, it wasn’t no polite way to put it. She was out of control. If we were walking back the truck, he goes, you sure do have an interesting name. Profane, but interesting name for that dog, I’ve never heard that. That’s all he heard that morning. But I was hunting with these kids out in North Carolina, one of them said, man, you’re so much different, so much different in real life than you are on your podcast or in person. I go, how, son? Both very transparent mediums. I’m exactly who I am to go, no, you’re different, I go, how am I different? They go, well, m effort for one, I’ve never heard you say that on your podcast. So I got to own it. I can cuss with the best of them and I’m not proud of it, I’m not bragging, I’m just saying it’s the life I live. Because when you’re in a duck blind or you’re just away from the world and it’s just you and your buddies in the duck blind, people can say, let the hair down, say and do what they want to say and think that they can’t say in the rest of the world.

Cable Smith: That’s a beautiful thing.

Ramsey Russell: That is a beautiful thing. It’s a freedom of sorts.

Cable Smith: Yeah, 100%.

Ramsey Russell: It’s a freedom of sorts. I forgot what my next question was now. You’ve done some international hunting outside the state of Texas, outside of the United States of America, what are some of your hunting adventures?

Cable Smith: I went on my first sea duck hunt this year, that was pretty cool. Just hunting sea ducks and literally looking at the Boston harbor skyline there, shooting eiders and old squaws, I still call them old squaws, that was pretty neat. So much culture, tradition there, that was one that I was like, man, and I couldn’t believe how big those eiders were. I’ve looked it up afterwards, they’re the biggest duck in North America. And I had this misconception about, like, you watch these videos on social media, it looks like everyone’s just past shooting these sea ducks, some of the more famous outfitters that have big followings, those things are right in your lap, they’re not very smart. It was cool. And hunting out of a layout boat for the first time, that would probably be my top of the list duck hunt. But I would say the most fun I’ve ever had on a trip was I went to British Columbia and did a week on a trap line with two brothers.

Ramsey Russell: Really?

Cable Smith: Yeah, we caught, I got a wolf, we caught like 3 lynx, coyotes, I got a fisher. And the thing that they were most pumped about was a wolverine. Got a wolverine and a bunch of pine martens and irmine weasels. But, yeah, I learned a lot. And just to be in that environment completely detached from the world for a week, just on a trap line, it felt like I was living 150 years ago.

Ramsey Russell: That’s crazy.

Cable Smith: Snowshoes. I mean, yeah, it was pretty cool.

Ramsey Russell: Wow. How did that come about?

Cable Smith: I wanted to get a wolf. Like, that was like one of the things, I was like, here’s my goals, what I want to hunt, what I want to harvest, I want a wolf. And so I went to SCI and basically you’re interviewing the outfitters there, right? I mean, like, is this a good fit for me? Can they deliver what I want out of this experience? And all of the outfitters in the lower 48 were like, well, yeah, I mean, honestly, 20% chance of getting a wolf on a wolf hunt. I was like, 20%? I’ve got to invest a week of my life away from family and it’s expensive and you’re telling me there’s a 20% chance? I was like, no. So I started looking at trapline trips and these brothers were like, 80%, you’ll get a wolf. And I was like, that’s what I want to do.

Ramsey Russell: That’s it. But that’s pretty darn cool. Talk about SCI a little bit because a lot of people, I don’t think, especially younger people, Cable understand really what SCI is all about. Number one, I tell everybody it’s the most amazing hunting show on Earth.

Cable Smith: Oh, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’s the entire global hunting community just converging in one city for 4 days. And whatever you want to do, going back to, if you have goals or a list of species that you want to pursue, you need to go to SCI because there’s somebody there, there’s probably 10 somebody’s there that will put you on a great experience for that. And it’s just up to you to figure out which one’s the best fit. But you see old friends, you make new friends, but you talk about being in a place of like minded people, I don’t think there’s a better show on the planet. Yeah, I love it. And 2 years ago I said, okay, well, Red Stag is the next thing on my list, it might have been 3 years ago when I started vetting these outfitters and I wanted to do free range, but I didn’t want to shoot like a 240 inch Red Stag. Like a lot of the Argentinian outfitters. Like, yeah, we’ve got Red Stag, but they’re dinks. They’ll show you pictures, you’re like, okay, that’s cool, but I want something nice. But I don’t want to go to New Zealand and hunt in a high fence, not knocking that, I’ve hunted high fences. I mean, this Axis deer skin on my chair behind me is from a high fence, I have no shame, I hunt a high fence. It’s not my favorite but I’ve done it and I’m not saying I will never do it again. But I didn’t want to go to New Zealand and shoot like a 450 inch animal that looks like it was bred in a lab, right? Like I want to shoot something that looked like a Red Stag, but something nice. So I found this outfit that had 10,000 acres and then they had a 1000 acre high fence and what they had been doing for like 15 years was releasing some of their breed stock onto the open range. Okay, well now they’ve got free range Red Stag on 10,000 acres that might be 340 inches. And so again I was like what do I want out of this? I’m trying to put a group of my buddies together, they don’t want to shoot a dink, right? And so that ended up being the best fit for me. But you can find whatever you want at SCI, so I already rebooked, I’m going back with, I went with that guy in 2024, I’m going back with him in 2026 taking a whole another group of hunters, they saw all of our photos and the steak and the lodging and the hunting and they’ve also got world class free range black buck, water buffalo, fallow deer. So, then that’s just part of the beauty of going to that show is they have what you want, you just got to find the right guy.
Ramsey Russell: To your point, the first time I ever exhibited at SCI, there was a mountain sheep hunt across from me, New Zealand guy to my right, just everything under the sun. I mean just to walk into the booth every morning you see everything, you see animals you never heard of Markor.

Cable Smith: Yeah.

Ramsey Russell: And all these critters around the world, blue sheep and just all this bizarre stuff. But interestingly enough, the longest line I saw that that weekend was the guy behind me from Missouri. And he always had just a crowd, a beehive of people around him. And I walked over to talk to him one morning, you know what he was selling? Rabbit hunts. Rabbits over beagles. I mean, think about it. Everybody on that show that started hunting as a child probably hunted squirrels and rabbits and mourning doves and I can’t think any – rabbit hunting to this day is fun. It gets my blood pumping to get on. Sure enough, bagel hound, where you got a bunch of rabbits, it’s fun. And I do like squirrel hunt –

Cable Smith: I’ve never been on a good beagle hunt, but I had just finished duck hunting on a public WMA up here in North Texas. And I was walking back to the truck and I heard all these dogs barking, I come across this guy, he was rabbit hunting with his beagles. And so I went and took my waders off and next thing I know I’m hunting with this guy, he invited me to tag along, it was awesome.

Ramsey Russell: Oh, it’s amazing.

Cable Smith: So cool.

Ramsey Russell: It’s amazing. And I used to know a guy, he’s now deceased, one of the men I work with in government invited him over. He was an older gentleman back then, shot a single shot shotgun. Had a pack of beagle hounds, shows up wearing denim overalls and a flannel shirt and had a pack of beagle hounds that he had cultivated for over 30 years. And he was old school, man. If one of his dogs didn’t jump, boom, he called him out. If one of them didn’t pack, boom, he called him out. If one of them jumped a deer, boom, he called him out and it was amazing. He turned those dogs loose and if all of them would jump and all of them would pack immediately and they’d run those rabbits. And it’s just so much old school fun to go out and just rabbit hunting, no trophy, no, nothing like that, just fun. So you went to New Zealand, have you been to Africa?

Cable Smith: I’m going on my 8^th safari in June.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah.

Cable Smith: So you’ve been over to South Africa quite a few times. Taking my son, he’s 12. Taking him on his first trip over there. He is, I would say, pretty excited, I think a little nervous, right?

Ramsey Russell: Do you take your wife to Africa?

Cable Smith: My wife wants to do touristy crap. I invite her on all my trips and she’s yet to go on any of them. Like I finally told her, this past year, or I guess it was in what, January, SCI? I started looking for Spanish hunts.

Ramsey Russell: Heck yeah.

Cable Smith: And wanted do one where I take her over there, use all my points, fly her first class, which I’ve flown first class to Africa twice, my buddy upgraded me one time. Boy, that was a mistake. Going back to the back of the bus after that experience where you can just lay down, oh my gosh. But I don’t fly that way unless I have enough points, right? I’m not spending $8,000 to $10,000 on a plane ticket. But yeah, they’ve got a lot of sheep and goat species there in the mountains in Spain. And we’re going to go do ibex probably in 2027, and I’m going to take her for the first time and spend like 3 days hunting and then 4 or 5 days doing touristy stuff in Spain. But yeah, she’s not a hunter, luckily she likes to eat wild game, doesn’t balk at anything I prepare, short of organs. She’s like, I’m not eating heart, not eating liver, kidneys, none of that. But other than that, she likes to eat it, she’ll cook it. So she’s a good sport, she puts up with me doing all this traveling and there’s times where she meets – and I think all of serious hunters probably have this with their spouse where there’s kind of a breaking point each year where it’s like, enough is enough, I need you home, I’m wrestling these kids and she works too. So she hasn’t had one of those meltdowns in a couple years. But when the kids were real young –

Ramsey Russell: That’s right.

Cable Smith: It was tough. It was really tough.

Ramsey Russell: That’s right.

Cable Smith: And I couldn’t live this life if it wasn’t for her. God bless her.

Ramsey Russell: My wife calls it a staycation, not a vacation, staycation because she stays home when I travel. But as a non-hunter, because she’s not a hunter, she likes the touristy stuff, but we’re actually seeing Cable, an emergence, a growing emergence in couples trips type stuff. So for example, the Netherlands, when it’s open for goose hunting is amazing because you got a lot of cool stuff to do in the afternoons, hang out with the old lady, we go to Mazatlán, Mexico, stay in a resort, guys go off and shoot ducks and we all come back and hang out or whatever. There’s so much to do as a couple. We’re going to Scotland, we’re going to New Zealand, we’ve got some different stuff in the works. And we’re being pushed by a growing sentiment of people that want to – we go to Argentina, that want to do couples trips. I took my wife on my 50^th birthday, I went to Africa, South Africa and I love to high rack that comes from my Texas days working down close to the border, I love high racking. And I took her along, she wanted to go, and a lot of those lodges are pretty darn nice, really good food, really good service, lot to do. And she got the biggest kick out of just riding around with me up top, like a tour through Animal Kingdom or something, and so much so that she wanted to come back with the kids who are hunters. And in 2 trips, she shot 4 animals, mercifully she liked the little small dink, the little bless bucks and the impalas and the stuff that don’t cost much money, and here’s the real kickers, we just got this agreement because buddy, when I say there’s some dead stuff, you see that’s over at camp in the house, we just kind of had this rule, no dead animals in the house, except for this old 1940s era whitetail deer my granddaddy shot during World War II. He was stationed down on the border. But I came home after that African trip and she did little horn mounts, and I came home one day and there’s her horns hanging in the den. Not mine, hers. But anyway, we have a lot of fun doing that and she got a kick out of that. And I do get a kick out of going places, like we go to Azerbaijan and I enjoy kicking around Baku before and after the hunt as much as the hunt itself. I mean, maybe not more, but certainly as much at least the first time. And I think she wants to go over and see it next year. Now one of the other husbands is going to bring his wife because it’s an amazing place. So much different than Dallas or Jackson, Mississippi and good food and just different culture. So I enjoy that kind of stuff.

Cable Smith: Yeah, I think she would enjoy it if she actually would like, go on a safari, but she’s like, no, I want to go to like, see the great white sharks, or I want to go to Cougar and do a photo safari. I’m like, I don’t want to do that. Sorry, it’s a business trip, I’m there to go hunting. And a lot of people are like, well, you should just add some touristy stuff on the back end of your trips. And I’m like, then I’m going to have a really pissed off wife because I’m be gone even longer. I was like, I’m flying overnight, I’m getting there jet lagged, I’m hunting for 7 days and I’m coming home as quick as I can. But she does like to go to deer camp.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah.

Cable Smith: For the last 2 years, I’ve always had a situation where, I mean, like, I’m camping in a tent or we have a trailer, but there’s no electricity and there’s no plumbing. Finally, I bought the family a used camper with water and heat and AC and so she’s in and the kids want to go to deer camp anyway. But now she’s in and she’ll sit in the blind and she’ll watch. And this year, we went to my buddy’s ranch in south Texas and for the first time she was like, she wasn’t hunting, but my daughter was. And that was the first time where she was like, actually supervising the hunt. She was like, okay, let’s make sure we don’t shoot the wrong thing, and she was all about it. Like, my daughter was going to shoot a doe. One didn’t come out, but she doesn’t mind it. I mean, I think she likes the family aspect of getting outdoors and really seeing how much the kids love it.

Ramsey Russell: Well, she was a mama first. All them times you hunt, she was a mama. And I think my children were the gateway to my wife’s going along on some of these hunts, coming to camp. Like we’ve been doing Thanksgiving at deer camp for as long as I can remember, but it involved the children. Because it’s like one day, one October day, I woke up on a Saturday morning, and my wife and I were sitting there talking, she goes, I want to go duck hunting. I go, get the heck out of here, you don’t want to go duck hunting. I mean, we’ve been married, let’s say, 20 years at that point. You don’t want, about 15 years, let’s say, you don’t – she goes, no really, I do. I go, why? Why do you all of a sudden want to go duck hunting? And you know why she wanted to go? She goes, well, because you, and here’s what she really meant, the kids, the boys are really into it, I just want to see what it’s about. And so I was in a camp in Arkansas, we got an easy pit. We got it because it wasn’t killing no ducks. So I got to walk the whole family out dry to this pit. And the ducks turned, it the best day of the whole season in that blind. And green wings and mallards and pintails and everything came in. And man, my eyes wife were as big as dinner plates. And now all that training I put in that old delta dog made sense because she got to see what that animal did, and she got to see these ducks up close and personal. And she goes, I had no idea. I go, what didn’t you understand? She goes, well, on TV, it looks like little dots, I didn’t know they got this close. It was eye opening for her. And then as my boys grew up, at some point in time, they’re both hunters, and so can’t be one person shooting a blind. So I put one in one stand and one or the other and somebody had to adult supervise, so she would go with one or the other and be the adult supervisor. And then she started understanding kind of how, I mean, the time in the blind, right? Where you can whisper and talk and visit at a level you can’t do when everybody’s staring at their phone or watching television or got homework to do, the home dynamic. And me and my close friend Mr. Ian, just because Thanksgiving is the day before the Mississippi opener, we decided, well, maybe we can talk to wives and families coming over here for Thanksgiving. We do Thanksgiving here, scout a little bit, go deer hunting and then go duck hunting next morning and it turned into something all these years later, now there’s 5 or 6 families that convene over there for Thanksgiving and it’s turned into something. But she’s not a hunter, but it’s okay. You see what I’m saying? Circling back to how we started this conversation, how do we convince everybody else that doesn’t hunt to get out of it, what our wives get out of it without being hunters to just appreciate.

Cable Smith: Yeah, that’s the million dollar question. And I really don’t know. I mean, I think there’s organizations, Blood Origins, they do a good job –

Ramsey Russell: They do a great job.

Cable Smith: Painting a positive, realistic picture of how a lot of times trophy hunting, really just any hunting is conservation. I mean hunting is conservation, that’s what we always say. I think putting it out there, they’re messaging the quality of the production that they are getting out there, I think if the non-hunting public saw their stuff, they would be more open, not anti-hunters, we’re never going to change their minds, they’re gone, they’re lost cause. But non-hunters, people that are on the fence and most non-hunters, they really don’t, they are kind of the live and let live. They don’t really care, they only get real irked up like when they see something like Cecil, the lion.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah.

Cable Smith: Or maybe a mega fauna, a predator, something like that. But yeah, I wish I had a really intelligent answer for you, I’m struggling with the same thing. I don’t know. And I think that’s the question that internally as a hunting community we’re all asking ourselves is, how do we get that out there when we’re stifled by meta or whatever it is, our messaging isn’t. Chris Dorsey writes for Forbes, he’s got, what is it? Sporting Classics, I think maybe.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah. Orion Media.

Cable Smith: That’s great. You’re getting a pro hunting conservation message in a publication like Forbes, well, that’s pretty big. But yeah, I was actually shocked that Forbes even would allow that content in their publication.

Ramsey Russell: True.

Cable Smith: Yeah. Ramsey, I don’t have a great answer for you, I think we’re all beating our heads against the wall trying to figure it out.

Ramsey Russell: How have your children been raised differently with regard to hunting than yourself? Because you didn’t get into duck hunting till late, you were a radio host.

Cable Smith: Yeah, I was like 19, 20. Well, yeah, I mean I was 19 or 20, I started duck hunting in college and then probably like by the time I was 24, 25, I had that show. But at the time I started, I only had shot ducks and dove, that’s it. And I was like, man, I’m hunting, I’m hosting a hunting show, I better go shoot a deer.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah.

Cable Smith: And I mean, I love duck hunting, it’s probably still my favorite. But oh man, I obsess over big bucks, I mean, I eaten up with it. Yeah, a good day in a duck blind is tough to beat, but when you finally put your hands on that buck you’ve been chasing all season, that’s a great feeling too.

Ramsey Russell: I’ve come full circle. I went down to South Texas in college because I wanted to be a Dr. Deer, I wanted to be a deer biologist and I landed a job co-op and making a whopping $500 a month, best days of my life working on a 107,000 acre free range ranch down against the Mexican border for a preeminent white tailed deer biologist from South Texas. And we shot antlerless deer like they hurt our mama because it was trophy deer management and got to see and do some amazing things. But it’s funny how I came back a wing shooter. Shooting all those deer was work and I came back the mourning doves and the quail and the ducks on the stock tanks and that just sent me down a path to where rant bound 2012, 2013, 2014 somewhere in that timeframe, I went to Africa to bird hunt, shot a critter and it’s like the ice broke. And now, man, I find a lot of joy hearing that bullet whop, South Africa, whitetail deer, I’ve gotten back into it. I find a lot of joy in big game hunting, I like to fill up the freezer. This year I want to shoot an elk and that’s my goal. And I’m not a big rack monster hunter. In fact, I’m the guy for anybody listening, if you got management bucks, I’m your guy. I’m your huckleberry, you know what I’m saying? I get as much – I’m going to saw the horns off either way. I’m not going to do taxidermy stuff like you see back there, I’m just going to saw the horns off and I just enjoy the hunt. To me, the hunt is the trophy anymore. It’s not the stuff, it’s the hunt, it’s the place, the experience.

Cable Smith: Yeah. And I think that’s what we’re all chasing is the experience, right? And what’s lost on the non-hunting or certainly anti-hunting factions of society is, it’s not just when you pull the trigger, it’s everything leading up to that. And a lot of those western guys are like, well, you don’t know anything, you just hunt deer to feeder. I’m like, hey, bro, I’ve come to your playground and I’ve killed animals in your sandbox. But I’ll tell you what’s real work finding – right now, so we’re losing our dear lease. The matriarch of the family’s 96 and her grandkids are like, granny, you’re living too long, we thought you’re going to be dead a long time ago, we’re ready to sell this place, we want our money. So they’re like, all right, so the 14 of us are like, well, we’re SOL and I get it, it’s their land, I’m not bitter about it, this is what happens with deer leases. So we’re out. But yeah, it’s going to be sad. That camper, we’ve made a lot of great memories there. We go there for opening weekend of dove season, take the kids out of school, my kids are never in school, going back to however they’ve been raised. You asked that a minute ago, we kind of got sidetracked. But they don’t go to school on September 1^st ever. And things that they find is like a normal part of their diet, like dove hearts, that’s like one of their favorite things to eat.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah.

Cable Smith: Like, other people are like, wait, you eat the hearts? And I’m like, oh, yeah. They’re like little sweet treats, the kids absolutely love them. I shot a red stag hybrid elk free range in west Texas this year and we ate heart tacos like two weeks ago. And I didn’t even tell the kids what they were. And afterwards they’re like, man, that was really good heart, dad. So they knew, like, they knew from the taste and they just pound that stuff. They don’t care. They’re raised completely different than most kids. I will say, sadly, they don’t really talk about it, I think the girls, my twin daughters are 10, they’re more like Chatty Cathy’s, they’ll talk about that stuff to their friends. My son, none of his friends hunt.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah.

Cable Smith: And so the only time that it really comes up is, they come in his room and they see the bucks that he’s killed and then they think, oh, that’s pretty cool. And then, he’ll start talking to them. But he doesn’t really talk about it to his friends at school because they all kind of think maybe it’s a little weird because their parents don’t do it. So, I wish that wasn’t the case in society. But in Texas, we have seen a – a guy told me he was like, you need to do a story on this soon. We have seen in the last 5 years a 20 drop in youth hunting license sales. Is that because of access? Is that because parents aren’t investing in getting their kids outdoors? Or is it because kids are so into their devices they don’t want to go outdoors? I think it’s a combination. And then you throw in, we’re all slaves as parents, if your kids are in club sports, like that’s a whole another racket.

Ramsey Russell: That’s right.

Cable Smith: American society right now is these club sports. And they don’t even let us go to church anymore because they always have games on Sunday mornings. And I’m just like, that used to be like a sacred time when I was a kid. Like I played club soccer growing up, we might have a game on Sunday afternoon, but you didn’t have a 09:00AM league game on a Sunday morning like my kids do now, it’s insane.

Ramsey Russell: Well, it’s still kind of weird to me. Just another generation is kind of weird to me, just making a phone call before noon on Sunday.

Cable Smith: Right.

Ramsey Russell: I can tell you this, I’m always cognizant of it. I’ll probably be calling this guy 10 o’ clock in the morning Sunday, he probably sitting in church. And I don’t know, and that’s what I guess I was getting at is how I feel like a lot of our generation cable take our kids. Our kids have the benefit of having a whole lot different and better if you’re into hunting and fish in childhood than we did ourselves. But they’re in a world that has gone the other direction than where it was when I was that age. It’s very different, very different stuff.

Cable Smith: Yeah.

Ramsey Russell: We’re talking about social media a little while ago, in this world where we’re so increasingly labeled and silenced on social media, what’s the long game? How do we keep our lifestyle visible and understood? I keep asking you that question, but I’m asking it a different way now. I mean, what is your long game for -?

Cable Smith: I’m fighting for my kids.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah.

I’m going to try to be a bulldog and I’m going to fight the good fight, I mean, I’m not quitting

Cable Smith: I mean, I’m fighting for my kids. I don’t want their right to hunt taken away in their lifetime. My grandkids, I hopefully, God willing, I’m still fit enough and with it enough to take my grandkids on their first deer hunt. But if we don’t stand up and fight, and there’s days, Ramsay, where I feel defeated. And I never let that feeling get the best of me. But I’m like, what’s the point anymore? The anti-hunting movement is so strong, like, we’re never going to win, but what’s the alternative? Just layover and die? And I’m not willing to do that either. So, no, I’m going to try to be a bulldog and I’m going to fight the good fight, I mean, I’m not quitting.

Ramsey Russell: But you know what’s so interesting is, is all these haters, let’s call, let’s lump them all together and call them haters, all these haters are vocal. Most hunters, quiet, solitary, serious, get up and go to work, come home, go hunting, fishing with a kid, keep their head down, and just live life the best they can. I mean, as somebody who’s traveled all over the world extensively, and I really think that 90% of humanity just wants to make a living, be happy, that’s what I believe. But as somebody that 15 years has been in hunting advocacy and has done what you’ve done, Cable, what do you say to the hunter who just wants to stay quiet, keep their head down, and not get involved in advocacy? What do you say to them? I mean, we were talking about social media, put your ego aside and help your fellow hunter, just pierce that pill. Help everybody, help hunting and help yourself by trying to tear down that shadow band wall, that algorithm wall. Is there a low effort way to be an advocate and still make a difference?

Cable Smith: I don’t think so. I think the folks that are just, they just want to be left alone, I get it, we all want to be left alone, but we’re in the fight of our lives. Like, there’s no other way to put it. They’re coming for our rights every day in every state. Federally, they were relentless. Antis are well funded, they’re well, they’re well organized. And when you see something pop up, it wasn’t just on a whim that they’re like, hey, we’re going after bears in Washington state, no, this is a major front. They know that Washington state is weak, they’ve got leftist game commissioners. God, that’s a whole another thing. You start seeing these commissioners that make all the decisions for states, all being Democrats. Well, okay, there’s the weakest link. Like the antis know that they see who’s on those boards, they see who the governor is that appoints them. Well, of course they’re going to try. That’s what they did with the mountain lion proposed ban in Colorado. And it was all just lies and none of it’s truthful. They fudged the data, they say, oh, it’s not sustainable. Well, Colorado’s had a mountain lion season for 70 years, of course it’s sustainable. 70 years of history, here’s the data.

Ramsey Russell: And they were killing them before there were game laws. Yeah.

Cable Smith: Oh my God. Yeah. And we don’t have any restrictions in Texas and somehow we’re seeing more mountain lions than we ever have. And I’ll tell you why is because we manage a white tail deer buffet across the entire state for them. Of course there’s going to be more lions.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah.

Cable Smith: But, yeah, going back to your question, I think the time to sit on the sidelines has come and gone. If you really want to protect the future of hunting, sustainable use hunting, and it is a renewable resource, then you’ve got to make your voice heard. And you don’t have to do it on social media, but write your politician, email them, call them, leave them a message. For instance, there was a congressman out of Waco, Texas, recently proposed a bill to abolish Texas Parks and Wildlife.

Ramsey Russell: You got to be kidding.

Cable Smith: And he was a conservative and I think he owns a high fence ranch and he wanted just more. He didn’t want all the CWD restrictions like interfering with his business. We blew up his office as a hunting community, within a week he retracted it, he was like, all right, we’re not doing that because the backlash was fast and it was furious from hunters. So we can make a difference. But yeah, you can’t sit on the sidelines.

Ramsey Russell: There’s no sitting on the sidelines anymore. We can’t just stick our head in the sand and hope it goes away because we’re losing it left and right. Whether we’re talking habitat, whether we’re talking habitat policy or conservation policy or hunting rights, we can’t sit on the sidelines. You’ve got to get out there, suit up and bust heads, somehow.

Cable Smith: Yeah. We got to be aggressive because they are being aggressive.

Ramsey Russell: And we’re tougher than they are, don’t you think? I think so, yeah.

Cable Smith: You ever see a blue haired sitting in 10 degree weather hoping that something comes out that they could possibly put in the freezer?

Ramsey Russell: Cable, how can everybody get in touch with you? How can everybody connect with you?

Cable Smith: Yeah, just Lone Star Outdoor show, all social media platforms, YouTube, subscribe. The best thing to do is just subscribe to the podcast, leave a review that helps with, I mean, once again going back to algorithms, right?

Ramsey Russell: That’s right.

Cable Smith: If people leave you a 4 or 5 star review, that’s great. So that would be cool. But yeah, just Lone Star Outdoor show. And I’m not going anywhere, I’ve been doing it 15 years and hopefully got 15 more in me.

Ramsey Russell: Good. I’ve enjoyed the conversation today, Cable. Of course, I met you at SCI and I’m a huge supporter of SCI. It’s kind of an antiquated name in this day and age Safari Club, you know what I’m saying. But it’s never been more important. I mean, I thought they were just a bunch of Marlon Perkins out there hunting 20 years ago, when I went to my first convention. And I realized that they are kind of like the NRA of hunting advocacy worldwide. And some of the stuff their emails have generated, like, some of the topics that have come across my emails that I would have been completely oblivious to. Like if somebody that travels around you talking about going in and out of airports or somebody that travels around and imports and exports wildlife, I mean, our Fish and Wildlife Service years ago under the Obama administration gave all of our 3177 export form paperwork data to Humane Society, gave it to them under the threat of a Lawsuit. Here you go. You can have it. What do they do with it? Turn down hunting. You know what I’m saying? Anyway, they make it easy to keep abreast of some of these issues that you don’t see on CNN or Fox News or anywhere else. Reporters don’t talk about this stuff.

Cable Smith: And they’ve got the hunter’s embassy right there in Washington DC, where they are literally fighting for our rights domestically and internationally day in and day out. It’s a thankless job, but they are kind of the gatekeeper. So, we’d be in a world of hurt without them. And Sportsman’s Alliance is a great one, too. They actually are trying to track every anti-hunting bill in all 50 states at all times. That’s the other thing, Brian Lynn over there, he’s a good friend.

Ramsey Russell: I know Brian.

Cable Smith: He’s like, dude, we have like 3 attorneys and they have between all of the activist groups, 300.

Ramsey Russell: Small world, Brian Lynn was the outdoor writer, I took to Netherlands.

Cable Smith: Oh, really?

Ramsey Russell: Yeah. That’s the story the anti-hunters read. You know what I’m saying? It blew us up. Yeah.

Cable Smith: Yeah. I love Brian.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah, he and I went king eider hunting before, but they do a great job. And I mean, if nothing else, everybody listening, if you want to be a passive participant and join SCI, join Sportsman’s Alliance. If nothing else just stay abreast of these issues and let pay a membership and let somebody else do the fight.

Cable Smith: 30 bucks for Sportsman’s Alliance, I think SCI is 65 bucks for the year, so it’s a minimal investment in your future.

Ramsey Russell: Thank you, Cable. Maybe we can jump behind a pack of beagle hounds one day and go shoot a rabbit together or something.

Cable Smith: I’m in. Yeah, I look forward to having you on my show in the near future.

Ramsey Russell: Thank you. Folks, thank you all for listening to this episode of MOJO’s Duck Season Somewhere podcast. You all have been listening to my buddy Cable Smith’s Lone Star Outdoor Show. Join SCI, join Sportsman’s Alliance, do something, don’t sit on the sidelines, don’t take a pass. See you next time.

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