EP 565. Eastern Shore Maryland Goose Hunter: From Student to Mentor

Ramsey Russell: Welcome back to MOJO’s Duck Season Somewhere podcast where today we’re going to do an amazing deep dive in Eastern Shore goose hunting culture. Joining me in the studio to guide me through this, give me a tour of this subject matter is going to be Mr. John Taylor. John, how the heck are you?

John Taylor: Ramsey, I’m doing fine, thank you buddy.

Ramsey Russell: Welcome to the new world. Now we had a few fits and starts getting connected on zoom call. Does this not remind you of the old Jetsons cartoon back in the day? Isn’t this amazing? Sitting here, looking at each other.

John Taylor: Buddy, I’m not real high tech. So the fact if my wife wasn’t there to set it up, we probably would just had going through the phone.

Ramsey Russell: Well, I got a feeling. It’s like I tell everybody all the time, my wife is the brains of the operation, I’m just a good looks of it all. And you can tell by looking at me now that’s a lie. But hey, here we are recording and of course goose season over and everything else. But you all got some snow hitting up there pretty hard right now, don’t you?

John Taylor: Yeah, right now it’s about 10 minutes of fogg and that snow started probably about 2, 3 o’ clock. They originally said we were going to get up to about 12 inches but now I think it’s going to go more south of us which good. I’m glad, I’m thankful for that because I wasn’t really looking for 12 inches of snow. But yeah, I’m not quite sure if they know what we’re going to get, but hopefully the majority of us can go south of us.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah. To an old goose hunter like yourself, John, driving home, what were the geese doing or did you even notice?

John Taylor: Well, as soon as I get home, I’ve got a ritual. I come in when I get off work, I come home, change my clothes get my dog and then we take a ride, there’s a couple different farms that I always check to see just where the geese are and what they’re doing and today was no different. And some of the fields were already loaded but they were steadily on the move. I mean the ones that had geese in them, there was geese steady piling into them. Right now we still have quite a few geese around.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah.

John Taylor: They were feeding pretty heavy, at that point the snow was just starting to get on the ground. So yeah, they’d already been out there but the geese were steady moving. So I don’t think they’ve been in there really real long, I don’t think.

“But you know what’s so interesting is when you talk to a lot of the historians, a lot of the old timers around here, back in my granddaddy’s day, the Canada goose hunting was the thing to do.”

Ramsey Russell: This subject of Canada goose hunting is near and dear to my heart always and I’ll tell you why, here in the great state of Mississippi where I’m born and raised, we really don’t have a modern day Canada goose hunting culture. We don’t. We do have the local birds, resident birds, we get out and chase a little bit. But that’s more like deer hunting than, than hunting migratory birds anymore. And a lot of times no matter how many geese you use in the field, you only get one big volley, they come or they don’t. But you know what’s so interesting is when you talk to a lot of the historians, a lot of the old timers around here, back in my granddaddy’s day, the Canada goose hunting was the thing to do. In fact, that generation were, they were all Canada goose hunters until the interior population of Canada goose migration quit penetrating the deep south. And one of my most treasured possessions, I was cleaning out my granddad’s house after My father died and found a box just a box kind of stacked up somewhere and I got to going through it. And there were just a small little binder and I opened it up and it was Mississippi Goose Camp. And I remember the stories, I’ve seen a few of the pictures from back in the day. But look John, my granddad’s entire hunting career was in about a 3 quarter inch magnetic page binder, he hunted and didn’t take a lot of pictures like we do today. And it was really just like a budget of what him and his buddies needed to camp out on the sand bars up and down the Mississippi River south of Lake Ferguson back during that day, and for tents and camps and little lantern, those little filters they put on there to light, the little wicks they light, they light the lanterns with, and butter and lard and flour and whatever they did. But boy, the stories were legendary. And after those birds quit coming down, the men in the Mississippi Delta started transitioning to duck hunting. And those that could or would, they would go up to Cairo, Illinois and get their fix. And that’s what I remember, that’s what I know. And I think that’s why even though we don’t really have a Canada goose hunting culture here in the deep south, I think that’s what takes me to Canada, to the northern tier of the United States, especially out in you all neck of the woods. Boy, you all got a long standing Canada goose hunting culture out there in the eastern shore of Maryland. Have you ever been to Cairo yourself?

John Taylor: No, we went there on a celebrity shoot one time, and we hunted crab orchard, hunted a couple of those places around there. And man, it was just like the Eastern Shore, a lot of history, Crab orchard in itself, I think that, they at one time were the heyday of Canada goose hunting and their fly away, I think that they’ve moved northward. But it was just neat. But being out there and seeing how they did it versus how we do it out here. It’s funny because I always tell people, it’s all relative. A lot of times people make broad statements of well this is what you have to do. And it’s like, well it’s so different in my own state from county to county and not even talking like, state to state or flyway to flyway. I mean, like, when I was a young boy growing up, in the fall time of the year, you could hear geese flying overhead and when I say overhead, I mean way high. And you would just see string after string, V after V and they weren’t coming to Maryland, they were going to North Carolina when I was younger. I’m 61 years old, we had geese, but most of them went to North Carolina. And then, as I got older, the trend kind of seemed to work more northward. And then, the Maryland Eastern Shore kind of got their fame, the claim, is goose capital of the world or whatever. And I think at one time, the highest number on record maybe was right there, around a million geese or so. And when you say that, like, it’s kind of unique when you look at the Chesapeake Bay area, the Delmarva Peninsula, so if you take off, the western shore, the western side of the bay, and then take off, like, the very lower Eastern shore, and then you put that many birds in, like, 4 or 5 counties, I mean, it was absolutely crazy. I mean, you can try to explain it to people, but if they weren’t here to see it, it’s just hard to really wrap your mind around what it was and the way it was.

Ramsey Russell: Wow, John, we’re going to get into all that real quickly, introduce yourself. Where are you from? What do you do?

“So, my mom was a school teacher, and she was big on education. So I went to college for a couple years, but it just wasn’t my thing. But my dad, he got me interested in painting, decoys, and decoy carving.”

John Taylor: Okay. My name is John Taylor. I’m 61 years old, born and raised on Maryland, Eastern Shore, live in Quantico. I work for the state of Maryland, I’m a correctional officer by trade. Next month, I’ll have 35 years doing it. And I graduated high school. My mom was a school teacher, and she was big on education and I went to college for a couple years, but it just wasn’t my thing. So as far as opportunity, I got in with the state, and there was a pension and there was benefits, and there was a lot of vacation. And, like, even to this day, you can work all the overtime you want. I don’t work it quite as much as I used to, but I usually work it for comp time, and then I take off during hunting season. So, like, this year, I was off the whole month of November. Then I worked the two weeks of rifle season for deer, because I just hunt the afternoons, evenings for deer hunting. And then when waterfowl came back in, I took off the rest of the season. So a lot of people said, well, when are you going to retire? Most of them said, well you’re halfway retired now because you don’t ever work on the hunting season. But so it works out, it works out pretty good. Yeah, I’ve got no regrets.

Ramsey Russell: That’s good. What was it like growing up on Eastern Shore? Were you always a goose hunter?

John Taylor: No, I’ve been hunting all my life, my dad was a big avid hunter, and so I did a lot of deer hunting, a lot of squirrel hunting, rabbit hunting, that type of thing. And my dad’s younger brother, my uncle, he was a big duck hunter. He sleeped and breathed duck hunting. And he got my older brother into it. And so as I was growing up, I was deer hunting and I shot a really nice buck. Well, I say, I shot at him twice at him, once found blood. We’re tracking this deer and unfortunately push it out to another hunter and they got it and I was devastated. And at that point I realized one week out of the year wasn’t long enough to hunt deer because that we had a one week season back then for rifle season. So my dad was a big trapper and trapping raccoons and foxes and back then the fur industry was pretty good. I mean, it was a nice side hustle. So anyway, I took my trapping money and I’m a young kid, I’m 12, 13 years old and I bought a bow and got in an archery and a fellow –

Ramsey Russell: Would that have been a compound bow or a stick and string?

John Taylor: Yeah, it was. Well, it started out I had a recurve that my dad had and so started out shooting that and then, compounds were just kind of like starting to be a thing. Like you had the whitetail hunter, what was that?

Ramsey Russell: Bear, whitetail hunter. Yeah.

John Taylor: And then they had the other one, but I bought an, it was an Astros Blazer 2-wheel compound bow. And so anyway I was just eat up crazy with deer hunting. And so my uncle and my brother tried to get me into duck hunting, come on, go. And I said, no, I’m not. I said look, if I got time to hunt, I’m going to be a bow hunting. I’m going to be up a tree. And in the fall and winter time of the year, I probably spend as much time up in there as I did on the ground. I mean if I was off, I was up a tree. And anyway, I started dating my wife and right there at the end of high school, and I’m going over to meet her father for the first time. And he’s asking, he’s like, does this boy hunt? She’s like, dad, that’s all he talks about. He’s crazy about it. He said, well, does he goose hunt? She said, I don’t know, he hunts. So I go over there to introduce myself and hey, Mr. Webster, John Taylor, it’s a pleasure to meet you. And I hold my hand out to shake it and he doesn’t even shake. He goes, boy, do you goose hunt? I said, no, sir. He said, do you want to go? And I had zero interest in going because I’m a bow hunter, but I’m dating his daughter, so I said, sure, I’d love to. And so the first time I went goose hunting, now my father in law, his brother in law’s father was Bobo Hampton. And Bobo Hampton at that time he had the Eastern Shore Guide service with Pete Henry. And it was one of the premier guide services in the state of Maryland. And so my first time ever going goose hunting, I mean, I got in the blind and it’s 3 time world Goose Calling champion Tim, he was a legend. I mean, anybody that goose hunted and blow a goose call knew who Tim was. And so I’m more amazed at the calling. I mean, I’m as green as green can be. But after a few bunches, one of them like, hey, he’s jumping out of the blind, he’s moved some decoys around, I don’t know what he’s doing and he’s changing them for the wind, whatever. And anyway, we get done with that first goose hunt and I come home, wife said, well, what’d you think? And I was instantly addicted.

Ramsey Russell: Is that the moment you proposed to her? Was it so good that’s the moment you proposed to her?

John Taylor: Look, we’ve been married 39 years, we’ve been together forever. I would have married her in high school. Look, I love her more now than did when we were dating. Anybody that knows me, they all shake their head and said, well, I don’t know how he pulled that off. Now I’m very blessed to have a, they don’t come any better than that girl I got. I’m a Chesapeake man and I like Chesapeake’s for their loyalty. Well, she takes it to a whole another level, she is beyond loyal. I’m very blessed to have the wife and to have her in my life. But so, I get in. So now I’m trying to go goose hunting every time I can. And so now I’m starting to get into it. Well then, my wife and I, we went, we get married and so now I’m going up there as much as I can. Well, and at that time, so like I said, Gore Tex wasn’t invented yet, so goose down was a pretty hot commodity. And Bobo had a picking house and I mean this was. Well, he had a really big outfit, he had a lot of guides. And to say it was a way of life, I mean, it was their life. And the picking house and I’m trying to remember I had the formula, like how many birds it took to get a pound of down and how much a pound of down was and the whole deal. But he would have like 4 people working the picking house. And back then when all that was going on, almost a minimum wage was like $2.50 an hour. And certain things you just, you don’t ever forget, they stick in your head and I can remember him saying, yeah, minimum wage was like $2.50 an hour and he was paying them $5 an hour. I mean, I don’t even know what the minimum wage is now, but I don’t know if it’s $15 an hour, that’d be like paying somebody $30 an hour to go pick geese. Well, there’s people that would, and they have big commercial grade pickers. But I remember one night I’m up there at the picking house, we’d come in with our geese and like I said at this point I’m probably was date, we hadn’t even maybe got married yet, and we were sitting in there and the guy came up there to pick up the down and they loaded all up and they leave. And I said, dag on, Mr. Bobo, I said, they just gave you $1,000 for goose feathers? He said, what? I said, they just gave you $1,000 for goose feathers. He said, boy, you better turn that check around right side up. I mean it was right there, I wasn’t Trying to look, but you couldn’t miss it. He said, you better look at that right side up. And it was $10,000. And I said, great. He said, he’ll be back two more times before the season’s out, just what they made off of feathers. I mean, goose down was a hot commodity. I mean, they made coats and I mean, to this day, the warmest coach you could get are still a goose down coat.

Ramsey Russell: I’ve still got mine from high school. There’s not a warmer coat made.

John Taylor: No, it’s the warmest. Yeah. I mean, they did a lot of stuff with it, but so that was all part of it. So, I mean, Bobo was making money, running the hunting parties. But also the picking house was a pretty good business as well, because they’re picking all of the party’s geese, but it was open to the public, too. I mean, like back in those days, there was picking houses all over the place. I mean, because it was such a big business and there’s so many outfitters, so when a party got done, they take them somewhere to go get their geese pick.

Ramsey Russell: But John, where did you go from that first hunt with those local legends who became family, a lot of them did. Where did you go as a goose hunter? I mean, here you are, a young man, a bow hunter, never seen, didn’t have a clue about the decoys, about the calls, about anything else. But boy, I can remember several times that I, Southern boy like me, not really a goose hunter, crawled into a duck blind with folks like – one time out on the front range of Colorado where they hunt those cacklers, I brought my old goose call, and I’m pretty good at to wit, make a few clucks and notes and I jumped in with 3 guys from the front range of Colorado, it sounded like 1500 cacklers had flown into the pit blind with us when them boys lit off, and I just put my call back in my jacket. But I can remember being so impressed with those experiences like that just on the call and it’s highly relatable. But how did you evolve? How did they bring you into the fold and teach you to become a goose hunter? What are some of the lessons they taught and what are some of the memorable moments you remember?

John Taylor: Well, ever since that first day when I heard the goose calling and I thought, I might not ever shoot another goose as long as I live, but I’m going to learn to blow a goose call like what I heard today because I was just blown away by the goose call.

Ramsey Russell: And so were they blowing short reeds or flutes?

John Taylor: No, none of that was all conventional style goose calls and they’re blowing olts. Scobie was a big name in the olts, but most people were blowing olt 800s or olt 77s. The 77s were a little easier, required a little less air to blow, the 800s took a little more air to blow. So I went down to my local hunting store and after that hunt and they had a fox honker, olt 800 and an olt 77, I bought all 3.

Ramsey Russell: And you probably could have afforded those calls back then with minimum wage too.

John Taylor: Oh, man, they were like $9, I think.

Ramsey Russell: There was no $150, $200 goose calls.

John Taylor: Oh, yeah. And I started practicing on them and I started, I mean, like, man, I’m messing with that time. But I told my wife. I have a little bit of an addictive personality, and my father was, man, he was so supportive with everything I ever did. And so, this wing shooting is something new. So my dad went out and got me a Mech 600 Junior Reloader and we go to some of these shoots. We go to like a DU shoot fundraiser and we’d be out there with spackling buckets picking up all the empty holes except for guys that maybe reloaded their own. And back in those days, I didn’t have two nickels rubbed together. So he’d buy all the shot and the powder and the wads and the primers, everything we needed. And I’d crank every evening I’d come home and I’d just be cranking those things out. And if I didn’t have any distractions, I could usually do about 5 or 6 boxes an hour. And I would be pumping these things out. And then we had these clay bird throwers and so I’m steadily shooting clay birds and I’m practicing on a goose call. But I told my wife we were still dating, I said, don’t breathe one word to your father. Don’t breathe one word. Because I wanted to surprise him, right? So, man, I’m shooting, I’m wing shooting, I’m shooting these clay birds like they’re going out of style and I’m blowing on this goose call. So now we’re going to the next goose season. And I meet him that morning and we ride down there and they had a nice goose club. And I got this goose call hanging around my neck. And he sees it. He said, oh, I see you got a goose call. I said, well, I mean, hey, if I’m going to be goose hunter, I’m going to have a goose call. He’s like, yeah, okay. He said, hey, well, look, don’t be blowing that thing while we’re hunting. I’m like, oh, no, you kidding me? No. So as soon as we get in the pit, the first thing those guys, because I know them all now because, I’m going hunting with him every chance I can. And like, yeah, man, you got a goose call, I’m like, yeah, you know. Yeah, I got to be one of the guys. Well, so it was slowing down now, I don’t know, maybe the geese were slowing up, whatever it was. And they’re like, well, can you blow that thing? I mean, let’s hear what you got. I started blowing it, they’re like, holy shit, he can blow this thing better than we can, call on this next bunch. But I had been blowing that thing till my lips were bleeding. I mean, like, look, I’m telling you, I’ve been putting some time in on that thing. But a duck and a goose call is a wind instrument, it’s like I always say. Now, look, a duck and a goose call is a wind instrument anybody can learn to play. The easy part is to learn how to blow a call, the hard part is to learn how to call geese. Read geese, know what to say, when to say it. And so many times you get these young guys, and they can do A to Z on a goose call and in the beginning of the season, when the geese aren’t call shy, they’re not blind shy, they’re not decoy shy, they get away with a lot because they know how to sound like a goose. But as the geese get pressured and they get a little more, now it’s a lot more about knowing what to say instead of just going out and blowing your calls. So back to that. I’m blowing it and they’re like, man, he sounds good, but heck, I didn’t, that’s kind of like where I got my start. And I mean, the olts, they were popular, I would say that was the go to call in the heyday of Canada goose hunt. And let me tell you, some of those guys, Tim Covey, and not just Tim Covey, there was other guys. I mean, what they could get out of an olt, they were at the top of their level during that time. So when you look at it like now and say some of the top callers that have taken it to the top, well, that’s what these guys did. They just did it on, what was available at the time. And then, I caught wind of it, I was hearing about this long call that this guy made Sean Mann, who was a goose calling champion.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah. Right there in your backyard.

John Taylor: Oh, yeah. So at this time, I’ve never been to a calling contest. And now we’re a few years in now, and some guys like, man, you ought to go to one of these calling contests. I’m like, no. They’re like, no, man, you really should consider it. So then, I’m hearing about this Eastern Shoreman in this long call and so I’m thinking, man, I’d like to get one of those. Well, my dad, we were going to sell, it was at the end of the trapping season, and so he had this one fellow that dealt with and buy his fur every year. So go and sell our fur. Well, then there’s this outdoor show there in town, and we go to that after we had sold his fur. And when we go in there, I can hear this goose call, but it didn’t sound like any other call I’d ever heard in my life. I’m like, that’s got to be one of those Eastern Shoremans I’ve been hearing about. So, man, I mean, he got my attention coming in the door, and then I’m coming down this one aisle, and then I bank and then, man, I’ve decoyed right into him. And I was like, starstruck, man. I’m fumbling with words like, oh, my God, that’s Sean, he’s a world goose calling champion. And so he had calls on display, but he was just taking orders. He wasn’t selling them because he was behind on orders, because I mean, goose hunting is still, a big deal with as far as outfitters and running hunting parties and all that. So they were $125. And my uncle was with us, my dad’s younger brother, he says, come on, let’s get one. I said, man, I can’t get one of those things, I said, they’re $125. I said, man, you crazy? I’d like to get one. But we’re blowing $9, $10 olts. And my wife would kill me. He says, I’ll buy you one. I said, man, I can’t let you buy me one of those. So my dad, he just got paid, for his fur. He’s like, how much are they? He said, they’re $125. He said, no, just give me $25 down and then pay the $100. Because they put your name on it in the event that you don’t pick it up when it’s ready, he’ll have to sign your name off and whatever. So anyway, I’ve got one on order. And they said it’d be 3 to 6 months and they were so far behind. I mean, like, and I understand, hey, he’s trying to get them in guy’s hands, as fast as he can, whatever. So, it was sometime later, and I get this Eastern shoreman and all my fellow goose hunters that I hunt with, they thought I bumped my head, they’re like, man, you paid $125 for a goose call, you crazy? And I’m like, yeah, well, and when I first got it, it came with an instructional cassette. But, man, the air presentation was different than the olt, then what I was used to and I couldn’t blow that thing for nothing. Sound like a party horn.

Ramsey Russell: John, hang on. For a lot of these folks listening today, $125 for a call ain’t nothing. But, man, we’re talking about a time and era that you were probably putting gas in your truck for 75 to 80 cents a gallon. $125 back then was a whole lot of money.

John Taylor: It was. You got to understand, this was back in the mid, mid-80s, mid to late 80s. I got that goose call from him in 1988, 1989, something like that.

Ramsey Russell: Gas was under a dollar back then, as I recall.

John Taylor: Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah. I mean, it was a mess of money. And so I got this thing and man, I couldn’t blow this thing to save my life. I mean it sound like party warning, I’m thinking, oh my gosh. But there was no Internet, there was no computers, there was no, it was just trial and error. So, in other words, it was a little bit of a learning curve. So, when I say this, I’m not taught in the call, it was, it was 110% operator error because I was used to blowing this olt. Anyway, so I don’t know, I’m a couple months in and I start to figure it out and then now, man, I mean like I’m getting pretty comfortable on it and I can blow the thing and so a lot of those people that were saying you paid how much for a goose call? And then when you could blow it and blow it proficiently, they’re like, how do I get one?

Ramsey Russell: That’s right.

John Taylor: They went from, oh man, are you crazy, to how do I get one? But yeah, so he definitely revolutionized goose calling and paved the road for a lot of us today. You know he was a very big inspiration to me, probably more than he’ll ever realize.

Ramsey Russell: I want to circle back to your future daddy in law who took you under his wing. Hey, you dating my daughter, you got to be a goose hunter. Tell me some of your memories. What kind of guy was he? And tell me some of your favorite memories hunting with him back in those days.

John Taylor: Oh, my gosh, man. Well, my father in law was quite a catbird, man. He was born and raised Deal island. And so Deal island is a waterman community. So he grew up crabbing and oyster and that kind of stuff. And then he moved to the mainland and he worked at Pepsi Cola for years. And unfortunately, let’s see, 1999 at 57 years old, he got diagnosed with lung cancer and passed away at 59. He did get to see me win the world championship. And so my wife had an older sister, so I was kind of like the son he never had. And I was very close with my father, but it was like I gained a second father. I mean, I was like the son he never had. And we were kind of inseparable. And my wife is his eyeball, we were like the 3 Stooges, and we did a lot of stuff together. And I mean, I can’t say enough good things about him and I’ll always be so forever grateful and thankful to him because if it wasn’t for him, I would have never started goose hunting.

Ramsey Russell: Do you have a favorite memory of you to goose hunting together?

John Taylor: To pick one out and I probably shouldn’t even tell this one, but I will. We had a goose moratorium where you couldn’t hunt Canada geese. And I knew he wasn’t doing too well, but he was still could function a little bit. And I told my wife, I said, look, I’ll get theory, I ain’t even talking about it. But I told her, I said, look, I’m taking him goose hunting and I said, I don’t care what happens. Whatever happens, happens. But I’m going to take him goose hunting.

Ramsey Russell: Was that his last goose hunt?

John Taylor: Yeah, it was. But I had a place where – and I was always born and raised, you colored inside the lines. Well, my dad would say, son, one of the reasons I didn’t introduce you all to waterfowl is because back in his day it was an accepted method of baiting and people would bait, they would shoot over the limit, they’d shoot after. I mean there was a lot of law, it was easy to break the laws, waterfowling, and my dad always set a good example and like with my father in law, all he had done for me and I said, look, we knew the outcome wasn’t going to be good, that his time was limited. So I said, hey, I’m taking him goose hunting, I’m not taking a gun. And then I said, no, I ain’t taking a gun, I’m going to go goose hunting with him and we’re going to go out there and shoot a couple, and we did. Season was closed, but I felt like, I can’t believe I’m saying it on a podcast because most people –

Ramsey Russell: I’m sure there’s a statute of limitations.

John Taylor: Most people don’t even know that story. And I was willing to roll the dice and whatever happened, happened.

Ramsey Russell: Well, beyond the geese that you all may have shot, which turned out to be his very last goose. Your mentor, one of your best friends that indoctrinated to the great sport of goose hunting on the Eastern Shore. You took him out for one last hunt, he got his last goose, what you all talk about besides geese? I mean, it had to be some kind of connection right there in the blind in that moment.

John Taylor: Well, it was, and it was very emotional. I mean, hey man, he was teared up, I was teared up and we’re hugging each other and but yeah, it was very emotional because like I said, I owed him a lot in so many different ways, for making the daughter that he made and for introducing me to the goose hunting. And like I said, so his brother in law, Carter, Carter Hampton, that was Bobo’s son. Well, so those guys, what was really cool about that is they could see the enthusiasm that I had like when I first started meeting these guys and so I lived on the lower Eastern Shore and they were an hour, hour and a half from me, but they were in like the heart, the thick of Canada goose hunting. And Bobo would say, I mean like he’d come on up here and so as time went on, forgot a party for you, you take it, if not go with this guy or go with this. And so, I mean, I’d go in there and I’d just go with another group and so I’m hunting with some of his top guides. And it was funny because people could say what they want, but it was nice to be able to get that experience. And hey, well, when I go with this guy, this is how he does it. And I kind of like the way he does this and this and then go with this other one, and I’m like, well, man, I kind of like the way that he does. So, I could take what I liked from each and every one. I mean, I was very fortunate to get a lot of opportunity on great goose farms with great goose hunters. And I was able to get a lot of experience in it. I mean, like my learning curve was pretty quick because of what I was fortunate enough to be exposed to. And so now as time goes on now, you’re going into the moratorium shows.

Ramsey Russell: Wait a minute. We’re going to get that moratorium because that’s going to be the crux of the story. But you bought a Sean Mann, Eastern Showman, $125 goose call. I mean, you could have made a truck note for what you paid for that call back in those days.

John Taylor: Oh yeah.

Ramsey Russell: And you learn to blow it. And is that when you started competing?

John Taylor: Yeah, my first contest, I had that Eastern Shoreman for not quite a year, I hadn’t had it quite a year. And so my first calling contest, I’d never been to a calling contest. So my first calling contest was at the National Outdoor Show in Golden Hill, Maryland. And they’re famous home of the one and only official World Muskrat Skinning Championship. When you say that people like, what are you for real? But no, actually, so you know the Eastern Shore, when you get on the lower eastern shores, it’s a lot of tributaries and a lot of marsh. And so this south Dorchester county, trapping was just like goose hunting, I mean it was a big livelihood. And so these trappers, I think it started like in like the late 30s and has been going nonstop since. And so in fact that show is this weekend, this Saturday, it’s this Friday and Saturday and they have a calling contest, so we’ll be going there. I went there in 1988, so let me take that back. I went in 1988 and I had an olt and Sean Mann was there and all these goose guides. And I’m hearing these guys blowing Shoremans, and I chickened out, I didn’t blow it. My dad’s like blow it. I said, dude, no, I think I’m going to watch, I’m going to sit this one out and watch. And I chickened out. And my dad was upset with me because he said, blow it, get in that thing. I said, no. I was just too intimidated. And I mean, look, there’s Sean Mann, he’s a world champion, blowing these Eastern Shoreman, I’m blowing an olt 800 and there’s all these, other guys there blowing Shoreman. And I’m like, no, I’m just going to watch. So in the meantime, now I get an Eastern Shoreman and we’re a year later. So it’s 1989 and I go to this calling contest. And so anyway, long story short, I wound up winning. And the guy that I beat, now when I say this, and there’s no disrespect to the contest, but I shouldn’t even been in the final round, there’s no way I should have won this contest. But the guy that I beat, his name was Vic Beecher. And I had never heard anybody blow a call like that. I was like, holy smokes, he’s blowing Eastern Shoreman and he had a style like no other. And I mean, man, I was mouth drop listening blow this call. And I knew I was at the deep end of the pool, there’s no way I should have beat this guy. But anyway, I beat him. They announced me as the winner, I didn’t beat. But anyway, so we’re in there getting something to eat and I am just picking this guy’s brain apart, man. I mean, I am just like, I am so overwhelmed and amazed because I’ve never heard anybody. I heard some good goose callers, but I hadn’t heard anybody like this, man, this guy was good. And come to find out, he was 3^rd in the world the year before. And I’m like, are you kidding me? I just beat this guy that was 3^rd in the world? And I have no experience. And I’m like naive at this point, right? So I’m thinking, well, man, I’m going to go to that World Championship next year. So that following fall, I go to the World Championship and I see him. Hey, Vic, how you doing? Hey, buddy, how you doing? Hey, you came out here. Yeah. And I got a big old cup of dose of reality. Yeah, I was at the deep end of the pool, struggling. These guys had forgotten more about blowing a goose call than I do. So at the World Championship, they do the preliminaries on Friday night and they do the finals on Saturday night. And I think that, man, that year I’ve got, because as time went on, two things you could count on, if there was a calling contest, I was going to be there, if it was drivable, and I was going to videotape it. My dad, man, bless his heart, he would go to every contest with me and at that time, we didn’t have a tripod, he’d hold it, the big old VCR, VHR or whatever, the great big old VCR cameras. And I would tell them, I said, dad, zoom in, like on their throat, their mouth and hands, because like I said, there was no computers, there was no Google or cell phones, it was trial and error. And down on the lower Eastern Shore, nobody did contest calling. And I didn’t know anybody, so it was just all trial and error. So I would say videotape and try to zoom in on their face, so I can see what kind of call they’re blowing with their hands, what they’re doing with their hands, their throat, I’m just a sponge and I’m trying to soak up as much information as I can. And so anyway, I thought, well, look, after that Friday night, I want to say it was in the high 60s or low 70s no, I think it was like in the mid-70s. They had like 70 some callers in it in round one. And in those days, I made the first cut that was probably like they brought like 35 back or something. But anyway, I said, well, I want to go back Saturday night because I want to hear what a World Champion sounds like. And so I went back and Keith McGowan, he was from Delaware, he won that year. And that was his second year, second year in a row that he had won. But that was my first time at the World Championship, and it was my second calling contest that I’d been to and competed in. And at that point, man, I was eat up with it, man. I mean, like, in other words, it wasn’t as fun as goose hunting, but it was the next best thing. And so when goose season was out, that was another way, it was kind of like to extend your goose hunting, I mean, because I was just eat, sleep and breathe crazy over goose hunting. I mean it just took the front seat to everything. It was top priority. And so, getting in a calling contest, well then, like I said, there was no Internet, so you didn’t know, you would be doing great fun or somehow hear about a contest, well, you go to one and then somebody would talk about another one. And so I’d overhear the conversation, I’d go interrupt and I’d introduce myself. I’m like, hey, listen, I heard you guys talk about this contest, where is that? And how do you know about them? And so then like, hey, well look, my name’s Bill and here’s my phone number. Call me. And then that would lead to, well, here was another contest, well then, okay, well then here was another contest, so that’s how all that kind of got going. And so now, you’re blowing your call 12 months a year instead of, because most goose hunters, I mean especially say back in those days, they didn’t ride around a goose call in their truck 12 months out of the year goose season was in, they blew their goose calling, when goose season was out, they did something else. Well, man, I had a goose call in my pocket wherever I went. I mean, one thing you could bet on that if you saw me, I could be at a wedding, a funeral, wherever I was, I had a goose call in my pocket. I would be blowing a goose call at some point of the day, driving down the road. I drove a Pepsi Cola truck for 5 years before I became a correctional officer. And I was blown on Eastern Shore, this is kind of a funny story. So I was a route salesman and I’m driving a tractor trailer, those single axle trailer, route trucks. And we had air seats and I would raise it up so that I could steer with my knees and I blew a goose call while I’m going down the highway. Well, I’m checking my rear view mirrors and if somebody was coming by, I would, set the goose call down, I’m going to have it down so that somebody’s not riding by and see me blow a goose call. Well, once in a while it get to you, and somebody would pass you, and you’re right there in the middle of doing your thing, and they look at you like, what in the world? And it was wintertime, but never will forget. I had on a fairly heavy coat or a winter coat, whatever. And Dick Hazel, he was the one that owned Pepsi Cola. And when I came in, I’m going upstairs to, finish out my paperwork, and Nick Hazel comes up to me, says, hey, John, he said, have you got your goose call with you? I said, yes, sir.

Ramsey Russell: Is that how he worded it? Or was it more like, you got a goose call in your pocket, you’re just glad to see me?

John Taylor: No, this time I didn’t have it in my, this was around my necklace as an Eastern Shoreman, right? And he said, let me see it. I pulled it out of my coat. He said, I told you, he was talking to the vice president of sales. He said, I told you. I said, what are you talking about? He said, we had a caller, we had a person call in that passed you, and they called in and said that the driver was smoking pot going down the road. I guess this looks like some kind of pot, pipe or whatever. So I looked at him and Dick Hazel, he was an avid bow hunter, I mean, I knew him since I was a kid, we were in bow clubs together and on. I said, well, Mr. Hazel, I was smoking pot, what’s that got to do with my goose call? He said, boy, get out of here, or whatever. So anyway, I couldn’t believe that he didn’t say, hey, look, when you’re driving one of our trucks, how about keeping your hands on the wheel. But yeah, I was blowing a goose call all the time trying to get as good as I could, get as proficient as I could.

Ramsey Russell: You’ve talked a little bit about how the goose calls evolve very quickly, go from some of the olt calls to now the Eastern Shoreman’s taken over, man. You’ve gone from a naive hunter for his first hunt to a champion. What were the decoys and the hunting techniques and the styles? What was that like back then versus now? I mean, you all just out there were with homemade silhouettes. Well, tar paper shingles in the snow?

John Taylor: I mean, it was absolutely unbelievable. I mean, like I said, Bobo was a very unique individual. And I mean, he would have guys that worked for him in the summer, and their job was just to make decoys.

Ramsey Russell: And so what they make them out of tires?

John Taylor: Tires, Silhouettes. He had the steel molds where they shoot the foam into them too. I mean, like, when they say junkyard rig, you think of it, they made a decoy out of it. But tires, silhouettes, made out of the Masonite and the foam that they would inject, whatever. And they would even tell you, like, what tires made the better tire decoys. I don’t know what made them better. Maybe they stacked better, so I don’t know, whatever. Because I can remember – So now, I’ve got a couple farms up there close around my house and I said, well, so and so down the road, he’s got a nice rig and it’s hard to compete with him. He said, boy, pull that truck over here. And I would pull up their side of the picking house, whatever. And I mean, my bumper would be dragging the ground I’d leave there. He’d have so many tires in the back of that truck, they would stack up like shelves, because you’d turn them inside out.

Ramsey Russell: If you had a truck tire, would you get like 4 decoys out of a truck tire? Would you cut it in 4 and stack them like that?

John Taylor: I think you’d usually get like 3. 3 out.

Ramsey Russell: Okay.

John Taylor: Yeah. And then some of them would have silhouette heads, but he had the molds. So like those aluminum or metal molds that you would inject, and he had aluminum dowel rods that were in them. I mean, like as far as tire, man, he gave me probably, I had probably 1200, 1500 tires, knock out the silhouettes and B boards and all that. Now that was small for down, I mean, like, but I hand painted every one of them, man. I mean, like, I probably had some of the fancier looking tired decoys, I took pride in them, man. And I’m a pack rat, I’m a hoarder, I don’t get rid of anything and I wound up getting rid of them and I regret it so much to this day because some of these younger guys that blow my calls now, they weren’t from that, they’ve heard about it, but they’ve never been able to experience it. And what I wouldn’t love to be able to just put a nice big junkyard rig. So, back in those days, they would have farms that they would set, it was a 90 day season, 3 bird limit. And a lot of those farms, they would just set the decoys out in the beginning of the season and they’d stay out there the whole season. But there it might be 12, 1500, sometimes even more. And like I remember when I first started going up there and seeing some of these rigs and I’m like I said, Bobo, I said, man, a goose could land anywhere in this rig, not even be close to in range. He said, boy, some of those would be, when I say, a quarter of a mile down from the pit or whatever, that would be no exaggeration, probably even further. But he said, no, don’t you worry about that, boy, it’ll come in here on this call. And like some of these farms, like they would have a pit, then they’d have standing corn and they’d have a hedgerow blind. And so they could always, and they would be out there shifting some around for whatever wind. But like I said, I was up the Rockhole this past Saturday and it just did my heart so good because I hadn’t been up there in like 30 years, that’s on the upper part of the bay. I mean, for me it’s probably two hours away. But I went up there hunting the last week of the season with Mitch Shoes. And Mitch, he blew our goose call, in fact, he put 3 world titles, the first 3 senior world titles on it. But we keep in close and he’s still one of my very dear friends. And I went up there goose hunting with him that last week and I told my wife, I said, look, goose season goes out, I want to take a Saturday and just ride up here, we’ll go out to lunch or whatever. And so we did it. We did it this past Saturday. But it’s so cool when you go up to these places that still tailor their farms specifically for goose hunting the way that they do. I mean, you look at these farms and they got the holding ponds and those holding ponds were for geese, back in the heyday of Canada goose hunting, you wanted to hold birds in your area and hold them on your farms. But when you look at all of the stand and corn in the way, everything Is just manicured for goose hunting even today. And when you get up there, so I live on the lower shore where the fields are a lot smaller. So, I might be in a 25 acre field with, half dozen decoys out. They might be up there and have 50 dozen decoys.

Ramsey Russell: Would that be like up around Chestertown, that kind of in that area that you’re talking about?

John Taylor: Yeah, it’s outside of Chestertown. I guess you would say, north west of Chestertown, it’s 20 minutes, I guess. 15, 20 minutes from Chestertown.

Ramsey Russell: John, when is the last time –

John Taylor: You’ve got to go Chestertown to get to Rockhole.

Ramsey Russell: When’s the last time you hunted over a junkyard rig. Could you pull it off today?

John Taylor: Oh, absolutely, 110%.

Ramsey Russell: Come on now. You wouldn’t be out there fully flocking those tire backs, would you?

John Taylor: No, sir. I can tell you right now, and that’s not any disrespect to any of the decoy manufacturers today, but I can tell you right now. Well, once again, they just have pulling power. And so one of the problems that I see with a lot of decoys today, they make them, and this is going to sound crazy, but they make them look too much like a real goose. I mean, and a real goose and corn stump was hard to see, you got to darken those things up, I mean, like black and white. Let me tell you right now and I mean, like, I was young and you would have these geese that would fly right over top of you, wings set and be two or three farms down from us going to these black and white silhouettes. And all they had were white cheeks and white butts and everything else was black. And they didn’t look that good. I mean, they were cut outs and they didn’t look, but when you look at them at a distance, the way they, it’s just like V boards, V boards on the water. And they call them V boards, but they really open up to a Y. So it’s like say, pick up 3, 2 by 2, and it’s got a hinge on the end and then they open up into a Y and they float. But they ride high on the water. And so we would put out V board rigs, but you could put your floaters, your goose floaters in there, too. And 99 times out of 100, those geese were going to go to those V boards. But if you left your rig out, like, say you were hunting and you left your rig out, you want to go get something to eat or whatever, and you came back, when you’re coming up the bay, you could see those V boards. I mean, you couldn’t see those floaters till you got right up on top of them. You don’t realize just how. But those V boards, just like those black and whites, they got a lot of pulling power, I mean, it will pull geese from great distances as they show up. And I’m constantly like, as soon as I get done goose hunting in the morning, whatever, I’m out riding and because I’m looking at everybody’s rig, I kind of want to see what they’ve got out, I want to see what’s in the neighborhood, because people are creatures of habit, and they like to do. Most people, they do the same thing all the time. And I’m a detailed nut. So I keep journals of, who was hunting here and when they were hunting and what they had out and this, that. And so I can look at it from year to year to year. And I look at some of these rigs and there again, when you get into those darker rigs, they just, in my opinion, they have a lot more pulling power.

Ramsey Russell: Back over in Crab Orchard, back in the 90s, there was a famous black hole. And I don’t know the outfitter’s name, but I know that Tim Grounds was a guide there. We went over there to talk to Tim, I’d never met him.

John Taylor: It was Crab Orchard.

Ramsey Russell: It may have been. I was hunting in crab Orchard, maybe I was at the different camp, it may have been the actual Crab Orchard club that this took place, but they had a black hole and the story was the owner put out massive acre spreads of bigfoot decoys. And the owner had flown out over it and had to get down to about 450ft, 500ft off of deck before he could see his decoys. And the rumor was, he came back to camp and said, hey, cancel your plans for the next couple of days, we’re going to pull the decoys, paint them black. They painted those bigfoot decoys solid black, but for the cheek patch and the butt patch and they said you could see that black hole from outer space and every kind of goose on earth would fall into them.

John Taylor: No doubt.

Ramsey Russell: And that would have been way 30, 40 years ago. I mean, black and white decals are not new, they just work. That’s why those tires work, didn’t it?

John Taylor: Oh, yeah. Well, they had a paint that, like you could go in the hardware store and that’s what you asked for a gooseback brown, that’s what it was called, gooseback brown. And it was a dark brown, obviously darker than what a Canada goose is for a good reason. Because you want it to show up, you don’t want it to blend in, you want it to show up. And guys would use like crazy big silhouettes, cutouts, I mean, I’m telling you, you name it, they tried it. They did everything. And it goes back to, like I said, once again, it’s all relative. So like on the Maryland Eastern shore, you go to Chestertown and those areas, you got a lot bigger farms, so you’re going to use bigger rigs. So you’re not as concerned with quality as you are quantity, because you got to be seen. You come down on the lower shore, okay, where I live, we don’t have anywhere near the geese that they do up there, but we don’t have anywhere near the goose pressure. So on certain days I’ll still put a big rig out, but when I go with smaller rigs, I go with quality over quantity. And that’s where like, sometimes those stuffers can really do well. Especially like, I always like stuffers on the snow because they show up good.

Ramsey Russell: How many stuffer decoys do you have?

John Taylor: I don’t have any now, but a buddy of mine, it was like 140 of them. In fact, Charlie’s got them.

Ramsey Russell: Really?

John Taylor: Charlie, bought his rig, a box trailer. Spencer.

Ramsey Russell: I know Spencer, I know Charlie McCurdy.

John Taylor: Yeah, well, Spencer had a really nice stuffer rig. Real nice. And it’s hard to beat those stuffers too, I mean, it’s hard to beat. Now that being said, over the years and hunting different places, I’ve hunted over some stuffers that were pretty rough shape, you know what I mean? Because you got to baby them. And sometimes People, I mean, like I had some stuffers, but they were such a pain because you had to baby them and even babying them, they still get some wear and use and abuse but yeah, I’ve hunted over some there my land. Like when you go to an old bar and you see some old bleached out buck on the wall, well, these stuff bleached, I mean, they didn’t look very good and these guys are like, yeah, man, what do you think? Hunting over stuffers now, I didn’t want to hurt the fields, I’m thinking, man, he looked pretty rough. But a lot of times, these fancy decoys, I mean, they’re more for goose hunters than they are geese, you don’t have to have really fancy – I mean, once again, I’m not making light of it, I mean there’s some really, really nice looking decoys out there. And I mean some of these decoys they have today, man, they’re as pretty as stuffers, some of them are prettier than stuffers. But they all have their place, it’s all relative. If we’re hunting a big field, I don’t care, like I said as much about quality as I do, quantity. And if I’m hunting a small field and it’s going to be a small rig, then I want them to look as good as they can look.

Ramsey Russell: John, you jumped off into a blind as a young man with your future daddy in law. You became a goose owner of epic proportion, a championship goose caller, driving a Pepsi Cola Bob truck with your knees you could blow that goose flute and practice. You were hunting, it sounds like you were just hunting every waking moment that you possibly could. How long had you been a goose hunter, a passionate goose hunter when the moratorium hit?

John Taylor: Came in 1995. So I’ve been through something 15 years maybe before that happened.

Ramsey Russell: What was the nature of that moratorium? As I recall, that’s been a long time ago. And I remember it because I actually had just gotten married and hunted up near Chestertown and we couldn’t goose hunt because of the moratorium and I remember that clearly. But the James Bay population of Canada geese was in peril, the numbers were down and they closed it for what, a year? 5 years?

John Taylor: No, it was 5 years or 6 years actually. They said that they got down to 29,000 nesting pairs. And so we were getting more restrictive seasons, and then boom, it went to a moratorium and it was 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000. And then we could start hunting again in 2001. So we had a 6 year moratorium.

Ramsey Russell: And so what’s a die hard, young, aggressive, savvy, passionate goose hunter, eastern shore goose hunter like yourself do when they close the season for 5 or 6 seasons? What does a guy like you do?

John Taylor: Man, at this point, I mean, like I’m in my prime, man. I mean, I’m young and I am just like wide open, just hard as I can go. And we’re into the calling pretty heavy right now. Contest calling, going big and just eat right up with it. So, what seemed like the worst thing? What could be worse? We don’t have a goose season. I mean, what could be worse than that? And actually, once we got through it, it wound up being the best thing that could have ever happened to me. And to put it in say, proper perspective. So, think of it, for the guys that are out there that are deer hunters. And I’m going back to when bow hunting, still wasn’t really a big thing like it is today. Because when I first started bow hunting, I bow hunted for like 3 or 4 years and I never even saw another bow hunter, people didn’t do it. I mean, it just hadn’t caught on yet. And so you put things in proper perspective like say with deer hunting. If I’m deer hunting and I’m a rifle hunting, and I’m not say trophy hunting like it is today, because back in those days, people didn’t really say trophy hunt, they deer hunted. Yeah, so rifle season, you’re set up your deer sand and hey, there’s a deer pow, you got it, right? Okay, so how much did that deer teach you? Maybe it did, maybe it didn’t. But when you’re bow hunting now, you got to play the wind and you got to get close. And so many times you wind up watching deer that you don’t get to shoot because they didn’t give you the right shot, I saw 4 deer tonight, or I saw 6 or whatever, but I couldn’t get a shot, so now you got nothing else to do but watch them. Well, you can learn more about deer hunting in one year bow hunting than you can 10 years of rifle hunting, in my opinion, the way that I was raised around it. And so it’s a similar situation, like, say, with goose hunting. When those geese come in and I find it so many times, I’ll jump around here a little bit. But the geese you kill a lot of times, unless you really think about it. I mean, yeah, you gain experience as you go, but you learn more about the ones that you don’t kill. And so now we don’t have a goose season, but I’m an avid caller and I’ve made friends now through contest calling and different places. And now a lot of my best friends are fellow goose callers. Kevin Popo, prime example, man. Kevin Popo was 2 time world champion. I remember him when he first got started. And I had more respect for him as a caller than anybody ever met because this guy had zero talent. Some people have natural ability, some people kind of have to work at it, and some people just don’t really ever get it. But Popo worked as hard or harder than anybody I ever saw and didn’t mind telling you how hard he did work. And he won 2 world championships and got out of it, and he would have won 3 and one championship champions if you blew in that. But anyway, got sidetracked. But he would come down and he’d come down, say, the weekend and just like if we were going goose hunt, I mean, we would set up and we would go out and we’d put our decoys out and, so he would have his way, I’d have my way of like, well, man, what do you do? How come you got it like this? Well, he’s like, what do you mean? That’s not right. Okay, well, we’d flip a coin. You got the first bunch, if you win the toss, you got the first bunch. Okay. So we would have our own calling contest, but we’d be doing it with the geese.

Ramsey Russell: Let the geese be the judges.

John Taylor: Right. So, now he would move the decoys how he wanted them because it’s his bunch and he might have, they get up off the roost and they’re not coming to this field. I’m like, hey, there they are, see what you can do with them. And hey, he might have turned them and brought them to him and got him or maybe he doesn’t. Well, then I’d run out there, and I’d change them, and then I might add some gravy dripping off of them that were coming anyway or it could have been vice versa. But anyway, so we had all of the fun, and a couple times we had game wardens called on us. Someone had called in, said, hey, these guys are set up over here at goose hunting. Well, they came in from both sides, and I looked, and I was like, hey, there’s a game warden out there. And then I said, I think they think we’re goose hunting. Well, then this other one came. Man, they came in there all crazy, and we’re laughing because we don’t have any guns with us. And so when they came in there and they said, hey, we had a report you guys were goose hunting. I said, no, well, we’re doing everything but shoot them. And we introduce ourselves and said what we’re doing. And they kind of got a kick out of it, too. I’ll be like, oh, man, yeah, that’s cool. And in fact, we had geese said, hey, get out. We got this bunch right here and now doing this, we had video cameras set up now, it was the old VCR tapes, whatever, but we would videotape just like our calling contest, where we’d videotape, calling in the geese and stuff. But even prior, like, on days that I didn’t have somebody with me, I mean, every day I was going and setting up, or I had different fields around here that geese were using. And so I was very fortunate in my early years of goose hunting to be with some of the top guys to ever do it. And it was a wealth of knowledge and his wealth of experience. But even still and like I was saying earlier, well, I liked when I went with this guy and saw what he did, but I liked when I went with this guy and I saw did. But you’re getting a human’s perspective of it, right? But you got to have respect for that experience and I did. But I thought, man, I don’t care what a human said. I mean, I do care. But I’ll take all, I want to go watch the real thing, and I want to study the real thing. And I would go down to Blackwater Wildlife Refuge that was about 40 minutes from my house, and they had a building there, where you could go in, where you go in and look at stuff.

Ramsey Russell: Like an observation tower?

John Taylor: Yeah. And I mean, and they had knickknacks and things you could buy in the little movie theater and it’s all about the Blackwater Wildlife Refuge and all that. So I got to know these ladies and their firsthand. And I said, hey, listen, if you don’t mind, I’m videotaping geese in the refuge, but my battery, can I plug in over here and plug my battery in? And they’re like, oh, yeah. So I’m going to have like 3 batteries. Why don’t get there at daybreak? And I would park the truck and I would be camoed up, and I’m walking all through the refuge, but I’m going to where these geese are, whatever. And there’d be bird watchers coming through, and there’d be times I had people 10 yards from me, they didn’t know I was anywhere around. I’m camoed up, head net on, and I’m just videotaping geese. But I would spend, I would get there, and sometimes I’d take a friend with me. But I realized real quick it was something I had to do by myself because they were like, well, hey, how about if we go do this? Or how much longer do you want to stay and man, look, I would get there and it would be freezing cold. I didn’t care. But I’m videotaping ducks, I’m videotaping geese. And people would say, well, here’s how you got to put your decoys out. You got to do this, you got to do that and I’m thinking, man, look, I’ve got a wealth of information right here and I’m videotaping all this stuff, and battery died, I’d run back up there to the building, I’d put that battery in, and I’d have things of tapes. I’d be out there all day long, and I’d come home and it’s cold. My wife had dinner, and I’d be putting that tape in, and I’m like, babe, come here, watch this, but look at this. She said, you fool, you’ve been out there all day long. I mean, yeah, no, watch this right here. Look, see how the way they’re going over and it was just though. I mean, like, I was once again just that sponge mentality and just soaking up as much as I possibly could because I wanted to videotape what the geese were saying to the geese in the air, and what the geese in the air were saying to the geese in the ground, and were they vocal? Weren’t they vocal? When and then did they pitch to the tail? Did they pitch to the tail of the geese on the ground, or did they come up to the head? And sometimes it varied. But a lot of times, like with getting back to blowing a goose call and trying to get as proficient as you can. Hold on one second. Yeah. And you’re trying to be as efficient as you can, well, learning to blow a wind instrument’s the easy part. Anybody can learn. You don’t have to know the first thing about Canada goose hunting and you can learn to blow a Canada goose ball proficient, it’s a wind instrument. But where you separate yourself is knowing what to say and when to say it. And so all this video library of geese and geese and he would watch, like, that first bunch come in. I’d have a field that I knew they were using, and that first bunch would come in, and it’d be a family unit or whatever, family group, and they’d start to spread out, and they’re feeding, and you just hear, some basic, and then another bunch is coming, and you watch that goose’s head come up, and then as those geese start coming into them, a lot of times it’s just fast single clucking. Sometimes you can’t do it fast enough, sometimes, slower, whatever, the geese will let you know. But I learned so much. I learned a lot of stuff that I would have never learned.

Ramsey Russell: It’s amazing how far a goose on the ground can hear other geese. I know they can hear him further than I can hear them.

John Taylor: Okay. And you said, you know Spencer, well, he lives on the creek. If I get in my car, if I get in my truck and go to his house, it’s 0.9 miles. But I’ve got to go down to a stop sign, take a right and so it’s a little bit of a zigzag. But if I do a direct line, he’s 3 quarters of a mile, 7 tenths of a mile, and he lives back on the creek, and geese roost behind his house. And so every night before I go to bed, I let my dog out, go to the bathroom, and they’re going to bed. And I’ve got hearing aids in right now, so I don’t hear that well. But when I let him out, I can hear those geese just subtle, just subtle talk. And that’s 3 quarters of a mile away. So when he bought that property and put that house on there, I was hunting, that I had a pit where his house is. And I told him when he bought it, we have mutual friends. I mean, I knew who he was, but we weren’t the friends that we are today. And he moved there, and I think it was 2000, so he’s been there a while. But I said, man, you might not realize what you’ve bought, this isn’t a real big farm, but it’s one of the better ones over here. Geese just come to this field. I mean, this is one of those places that they just come to, and he’s got a nice roost beyond his house. Well, they split that farm up, and I still hunt the field beside him. But a lot of times, and we’re hunting closer to roost. So those roost geese, if you hunt it right, you can get a few shoots out of it. But me being able to hear them three quarters of a mile away, so if they’re back there on that roost and I’m coming into that field, I’ll tell the guys, like, I only go in there with small numbers. And I said, look, man, we go in, I got the headlights off, keep everything quiet, don’t talk, talk, we’re real quiet, we try to sneak in, and we get in there as early as we can so things can kind of settle back down. And by doing that, you can get a few good hunts off of those geese right behind the roost. Now, those typically, as the season goes, aren’t the ones you’ll kill because they wise up to that game. But people think, that I’m over exaggerating. Like, oh, man, you don’t have to do. But geese are just like any other, they’re creatures of habit, they do the same thing all the time. And just like where Spencer lives, they’re used to him getting up early in the morning, going out, letting his dog out, starting the truck up and all that and they’re creatures of habit. They’re used to that. But now if 5 trucks pull up into his house that morning and the gator starts up and they go out in the field, and that’s something different. And then those geese go do something entirely different. I mean, so one of our goose calls, is called kill gene and we’d make jokes, I said some people got it, some people don’t. But it just kind of over the years, guys that were like die hard deer hunters seem like they’re they have more of a kill gene when it comes to waterfowl hunting. I mean, and some people might want to debate that and say I’m crazy and don’t know what I’m talking about. But you develop people that are like die hard deer hunters and successful, consistently shoot nice bucks. You might get lucky and shoot a nice buck here and there. But go back in 10 years and see how many bucks they have in 10 years, and then you’re like, no, this guy, he’s a deer hunter. Well, that transferring over into goose hunting. I mean, in other words, just like with outfitters, they’ve got some guides that produce, it doesn’t matter where you put them, they’re going to produce.

Ramsey Russell: You really talk about creatures of habit and you talk about them being creatures of habit and I mean that makes perfect sense about the deer hunting to me, it makes perfect sense to me because like a deer, a deer will bed down, he’ll get up and feed, he’ll go chase around a little bit, he’ll go and bed down and get up and eat, geese are the same way. Heck, I’m the same way, you’re the same way. I get up, I walk to the kitchen table or I go to the refrigerator, I go sit in the recliner, watch TV, I go back. We got these habits and we got these paths within our own environment, I can see the geese being like this. What are some of the real takeaways, the real lessons that you learned? I mean, for 6 years during a moratorium, you gained a PhD in goose behavior and goose vocabulary by not hunting, by just going out and engaging the geese for 6 years. What are some of the takeaways? What did you just learned, you said earlier, man, it was one of the best things ever happened. What specifically did you learn during that moratorium?

John Taylor: Well, a lot of times. Okay. And then rewind a little bit from that and I’ll relate it to the calling again. So, when I wasn’t really proficient at calling, I had to put my decoys out a certain way to try to get the geese to do what I wanted them to do. And so you do more like, these and hooks and whatever to try to create that zone that, forcing them right into this spot. But what I found, and that’s the way a lot of people hunt. But it’s man made looking, it’s not as natural looking. So when you’re watching geese, when we have that moratorium and you’re watching them and you see how spread out they are, sometimes they’re tight, but how the geese come into them. Well, so just like even now, and if we’re putting out a big rig and some of the guys will, well, that’s my chops, like, oh, John’s particular, no. When we’re unloading the trailer, look, I’ll tell them, hey man, go ahead and start, I’ll straighten it up. But what they don’t understand, I’m setting it up to my calling. Okay, so when you become more proficient on a call, you can run. Because I like to run looser rigs, and when I say loose rigs spread out and family groups spread out, I mean, I’ve run a lot looser rig and that’s from watching geese because it’s more natural and especially late season because geese really get, people are creatures of habit, they do the same thing and the geese see the same thing. And it’s just like with calling. So, the first part of the season calls can be very effective. But a lot of these geese winter here, so we don’t catch them passing through, they come here to winter. So they live here almost as long as they do on the nesting grounds. I mean, they can start showing up, well, traditionally, they used to show up, maybe like the 3^rd week of September, whatever, and would stay here till the end of February into March. But they get used to the same thing, so I want to give them something different. But watching geese, as far as making the rigs more realistic and watching where geese go into geese and watching what the geese say to the geese in the air. There’s a lot of times in the beginning of the season, most of these goose hunters have a box trailer with 10, 12, 15 dozen decoys, and they’ve got 3, 4 short reed guys in there, and they have success. But the geese start toning, chewing in on that.

Ramsey Russell: They recognize that formation time. And time again they just see it. You are talking about the formation, I never see geese sitting out in the field in a V or a W or X.

John Taylor: No.

Ramsey Russell: They’re in big, long drifts.

John Taylor: Yeah.

Ramsey Russell: But like a deer, by setting up a V or setting up a pocket, it makes it easy, there’s their nature wants to fall into a pocket, wants to fall into a hole, that’s just what it make it easy. In the same way that a whitetail deer, he’ll walk a half mile out of his way to jump over two strand stranded barbed wire instead of one. I mean, you got to kind of make it easy for them, but at the same time, you got to be natural, and you can’t look like everybody else because the geese will recognize that.

John Taylor: Well, it’s just like with deer. I mean, like you can create funnels and with wind, I mean, like, I might have places where I’ve got deer stands that are like 15, and I say 15 yards, 15ft apart and people like what? So many times, like, when you’re deer hunting, you’ll hear people say, oh, man, I got to go out there and, man, the wind’s going to be right. And they’re like, I didn’t see that many deer. And it’s like, well, no, the wind was right for you, it wasn’t right for the deer. So you got to cheat those deer, and you got to get just on the edge of just where – I mean, because a lot of times playing that wind, you got to be just on the edge of getting busted for it to work. But yeah.

Ramsey Russell: John, when along in this story did you get into making your own goose calls?

John Taylor: Well, So I started competing in 1989, and it was in 1997, I had bought a lathe, but I didn’t have all the right stuff. I couldn’t drill stuff out, whatever. So I’m just familiarizing myself with a lathe, and I’m saying 1997 that was probably before that. And I’m just familiarizing myself with the lathe and learning to cut stuff, I don’t have any. I’m making a bunch of calls, but none of them are drilled out. And so now and in 1997, I was at the World Championship, and Joe Layers, he was from Chico, California. He had come out to the world that year, and after the preliminaries that Friday night, he came over to me and introduced himself, and he said, hi, my name is Joe Layers, I’m from Chico, California. He said, I make goose calls, and if you don’t mind, I’d like for you to check them out. I said, absolutely. So he opened up this briefcase full of calls, and the workmanship was just like no other. I mean, it was just unbelievable, man. I mean, he was a craftsman and then some. And so I tried one, and I’m blowing it. I’m like, wow, man, this thing is really nice. So I blow it, he takes the call back, he takes the insert out of the barrel, then he takes the gut assembly out of the insert and he’s got it all in his hand. Now he’s making eye contact with me, never takes his eyes off my eyes. And he puts it all back together and said, here, try it. And it was spot on. I’m like, oh, my gosh, man, you’ve got to be kidding me, but he was a master machinist. And he made dental tools. And I mean, he just was unbelievable. So he said, look, so now some people are starting to crowd around. And he says, can you do me a favor? I said, yeah. He said, see me before you leave. I said, okay. Well, I kind of could read between the lines. Like, I think he wanted to give me a call, but he wanted to do it in front of all those people, because he wasn’t there to give calls away. So I see him and he said, look, I want you to have one of my call, I really like the way you blow a goose call and I want you to have one of my calls. And he had some really nice, beautiful checkered calls and I thought, well, they all were kind of the same, but some were just really fancy. And I thought, well, I didn’t want to be greedy or whatever. So, I took like bare bones, basic one, whatever. But all the internals were the same, it blew the same sound of the same. And as we were talking and I told him, I said, man, like right now, I win my fair share, I’m in the top 3, the top 5. But I think this call is going to give me a little more consistency. I think it’s going to put me in the winner circle a little more consistent. Man, I really like this thing. And so at that time they had, it was called the Calling Times. It was for and about callers. It was Carl and Cindy Lousman, they were from Kentucky, and they had this little pamphlet, the Calling Times. And it would tell you when contests were and who won what contest on what call. And so anyway, that particular year, I’d hit a lot of contests and I’d had a pretty good run. But I was blowing this Hess call, Keith Hess call from Kentucky. So he reached out to me and he says, hey, John, Joe Laris, hey, Mr. Laris, how you doing? He said, man, you’ve had a good year. I said, oh, yes sir. Mr. Laris said, the calling God’s been shining on me. He said, well, look, I see that you’re not blowing my call, and that’s why I’m calling you, because I thought you were going to be blowing. I said, well, I said, Mr. Laris, you got to understand as a caller, I’ve got to blow what I think is going to give me the best advantage and I still kind of think I like, for the stage, I like this other one better. He said, well, no, I appreciate your honesty, but that’s why I’m calling you, because I want to make a call, you’re going to blow. So tell me what we got to do. And so then he and I worked back and forth, and I mean, it was a process, and I would set up the video camera on a tripod and I would send him notes and diagrams and then he would send me, like, 5 calls. And he said, look, John, when you get these calls, do not do one single thing to them, I’ve got them all, but they’re all numbered. And then I want, feedback on each one and this, that. Because I’m trying to dial this thing and that it’s going to be, what you want. And so it would go back and forth and he was going to fly me out to California, says, John, look, I think if I flew you out here for a week, instead of this, back and forth, forth. And so anyway, we’re going into the fall time of the year, and our Maryland State contest was in October, and the World Championships were in November. Well, the Maryland State, it was a big deal to me, I’d never won it. I’d been second and third, but I’d never won it. And so I went to the Maryland State that year, and I won the Maryland State that was in 1998. And so I won on this call. And I called him, I said, hey, man, I’m on a cloud, just won the Maryland State and that’s been one I’ve been wanting to win and just haven’t been able to. That’s back, Josh Neubiler, he was on his roll with an Eastern Shoreman, and he was pretty much unbeatable. I mean, like, you went to a contest, you were going to be blowing for second because Josh pretty much was winning everything he blew in, and for good reason. I mean, he sounded really good. And so now we’re a few weeks later, and we’re at the World Championship. Well, he was supposed to fly in that Wednesday, Thursday, and he was going to stay at my house. And my wife, from her water background, island background, crab cakes and soft crabs and buckrams and shrimp and going to show them a real good, Eastern Shore hospitality time. Well, he calls me the night before and he says, John, I got some bad news. I said, what’s that? He said, I’m not going to be able to make it. He said, my wife’s having dizzy spells and I can’t go there on the other side of the country with my wife. I said, well, I certainly understand, and I’m very disappointed. But I certainly understand I wouldn’t either. And so anyway, they do the preliminaries on Friday night and the finals on Saturday. So, let me get this straight down. 1995, 1996, 1997, I had been fourth in the world 3 years in a row. So Friday night, I make it to the preliminaries, I call him Saturday morning and said, hey, Mr. Laris, I said, I made it to the finals. He’s like, you’re kidding me. I said, no. He said, well, John, first year on the call, he said, man, as far as I’m concerned, you’ve already won. If you get dead last, man, let me tell you, that’s quite an accomplishment. And I was like, yeah. So anyway, we get into the final round, and they had 7 in the finals. They do 5 now, but every once in a while there’s a tie. Instead of doing a call off, they’ll just bring back 6 or 7 versus the 5. But anyway, they had some things. I have to think about it, 7^th place was Larry Baker from Lincoln, Nebraska. 6^th place was Kelly Ross from Ohio. 5^th place was Kevin Popo, I’m saying this wrong, maybe it was 6 people. Yeah. Larry Baker was 6, Kelly was 5^th, Kevin Popo was 4^th, so now they get down to 4^th, and I’m like, holy smokes, man, I am getting a 3^rd place, I’m going to get a 3^rd place plaque and I was like, oh, my God, that’s my best finish yet. Well, after the final round, they said, we have a tie, they came back and said, we have a tie. It was between Brandon Bean and Carl Lousman. And Brandon Bean was on a roll, he did a lot of contests that year. Most of what he called and he had won and he was kind of like the favorite one to win, like, going into it, a lot of people will be on the Internet, like, hey, who do you think is going to win? And Brandon Bean was a very accomplished caller and won a lot of stuff. Because back in the day, like, I thought, well, so if Calling God shine on me, I think I’ve got what it takes to make the final round, but to actually win this, no, that was just a fantasy. So now I’m sitting there thinking, they had a call off, and they come back, they said, we got a call off, and it’s between caller this and caller that and it was Brandon Bean and Carl Ousmane. So they Go back and they do the call off. So now we’re down to 4^th place to call Kevin Popo. And I’m like, I’m top 3. I’m like, oh, my gosh, man, I’m top 3. And I’m thinking, man, I’m going to get a plaque but right before they call it, I’m sitting there thinking, if they don’t call you for 3^rd, you won. Because they were in a tie. So I’m either 1^st or 3^rd. And they said, and in 3^rd place from whatever, Kentucky, Carl Osmo, I started jumping all over the stage, man. I mean, just ecstatic. And Kevin Popo, who was my best friend in calling, man, we went to a lot of contests together, we practiced hard together and all this. So I’m jumping all around, he’s looking at me like, dude, they just called 3^rd, they still got two more to go. And I said, Kevin, they died. I said, I won. He’s like, what? His brain wasn’t working. I said, man, I won. He’s like, you won? I said, yeah, man, I won. So anyway, getting back to the call thing, right? So Joe Laris and I had worked on this call. So now I’ve won the world championship and we’re a month later. And we’re still working prototyping this call. I said, look, I think if we did this, I’m still mentioning some things, he said, John, the call just won the world Championship, it’s good enough. I mean, it’s just won the world. And I’m like, Mr. Laris, there’s always room for improvement. And I said, and if I didn’t make it to the finals, we’d still be working on this call. I mean, if we can’t get any better, that’s fine, but we got to try. And he kind of was satisfied with where it was. And I was sitting there thinking, man, I mean, a lot of this, he did it because he’s the one, he had the equipment to do it. But so that’s when I was like, okay, you know what, I’m going to go get the stuff I need and as much as I fooled with calls as far as, like, if a new call came out and the market wasn’t saturated like it is today, like, back then, so there wasn’t as many calls out. But when a call came out, you had to get it because you wanted to see what it was about. And so, you’re constantly trying, this gut and that gut call and this insert will fit in that barrel and as much as you think you know what makes a call tick and I thought I did when I got a lathe and could really now fool with different bores and different lengths and as much as I thought I knew what made a call tick, well, then I started learning. Well, okay, if you want to call to do this, there’s not any one thing, it’s a combination of things. But as a result, well, if you do this, it’s going to do this. If you do this, it’s going to do this. And that’s not even getting within the gut, the wedge, the tone board, the reed just talking about barrels and inserts, lengths and bores. And like, somebody could show me a call that they bought on eBay, some guy, and they’re like, you ever seen one of these? I’m like, no. And it would be in an acrylic call, transparent color call, not even blowing it, just looking at it. And I would say, well, by the looks of it, looks like, and I would describe how I thought it blew, he goes, man, you just nailed that thing to a T. You sure you’ve never blown one of these? I said, no, I’ve tried everything that you can possibly imagine and I know that bore and this is, this is going to equal this. But so there was a big learning curve, but I’m glad I did all of that to educate myself on, I mean, like, as far as what makes a call tick and what you got to do to get it to take the way you want it to.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah, fantastic. So you now make your own call.

John Taylor: Yeah, I started making calls in 1999.

Ramsey Russell: And what’s the name of your call company?

John Taylor: Bay Country Calls.

Ramsey Russell: Bay Country Calls. Charlie was telling me that you’re teaching a lot of young people, a lot of others about calling, about hunting. What are some of the things that you’re teaching some of this younger generation, some of the people? We started off this podcast, you were talking about your future father in law, he was a teacher. Those men that were in the pit blinds, they taught and nurtured you and mentored you into this goose hunting passion that has absolutely predominated your life. And now you’re handing it off to another generation. What are you teaching them about calling, about hunting? And most importantly, John, what are you teaching them about life.

John Taylor: Well, you probably wind up having to do a part two on this because I could talk about this forever. But so now I’m starting to make calls, but I’m still an avid caller, but I’m going to blow what I’m making. And my prototypes, they’re not really quite there yet. And I’m getting to where what you’re talking about, but I’m giving you the little free. And so I’m trying to get my teeth kicked in, and I’m getting my teeth kicked in when I should be doing better. But I’m committed to I’m going to blow what I’m making. And then I kind of got to a point where I was getting tired of getting my teeth kicked in, where you got to make a choice, you’re either going to be a call maker or a caller, but trying to do both isn’t working out too good for you. And then I finally, I stumbled onto something that, man, I thought, you know what, I never ever, not one time did I ever get into call making with the thought of being a call maker to sell calls, that was never my goal. I wanted to make a call that I was going to blow on the stage and in the field. So now I’ve hit on something that it’s fit me and I like it. And now, people starting to take notice, like, hey, man, what kind of call is that? I said, I made it, they’re like, you made it? I’m like, yeah, well, how can I get one? Oh, I’ll make you one. So, I got some of these young kids in the neighborhood that, I’m friends with their father, we goose hunting together. And so Justin Culver, I mean, Justin, man, he lived right down the road from me and just eat right up with hunting, any kind of hunting or outdoors. And so now I got him in a contest calling, and he’s putting his time in and he’s got a ton of natural ability. I mean, he’s goosey and so we’re hitting a lot of contests and now he’s doing good. Well, in 2004, he won the Junior World Championship, so that was our first junior world title. So now, people are starting to take notice and people are saying, well, hey. So now I am a call maker that’s selling calls, but that was never my goal. I mean, it just kind of happened that way. So now it’s like a snowball at the top of the mountain, and it’s starting to roll down, and it’s gaining momentum. And now a couple guys like, well, man, what kind of call is that? Well, I like the way it sounds, can I get one? Then they get one. Well, these younger kids, and I told them, I said, listen, I won’t push this on anybody, but if you want it, I’ll give you all you want. I mean, like, as far as I’ll help you as much as you want to be helped. And so, these young kids started coming over, on a regular, and their fathers are bringing them over, 2 times a week, 3 times a week, 4 times a week. Spencer Waller, he’s got a big pole barn, call sounded amazing in there. We’re in there and so people would call me, hey, Mr. John, wonder if I could come over on Monday? And I’m like, yeah, Monday’s fine. Someone else called Mr. John, wonder if we could come Wednesday? Why? Got so and so coming Monday if you want to come Monday. No, Monday doesn’t work. Okay, Wednesday’s fine. And then it would turn into Tuesday, and we’re in there blowing calls every night. Well, so now these guys are getting proficient, and I mean, they’re kids, they don’t have driver’s license, and they’re putting time in, their dads are taking them to contests, and they’re starting to do well. And I’ve watched them now, like, at 61 years old, I’ve watched them grow up. And it’s funny, because as time went on, we kind of started, developing a team, and we call it team Shore thing. And it’s the handful of guys that have been with me for a long time, since the time they were kids, and have just stuck with me and we’ve never ever, not one time have we ever try to pull anybody. And I would make that very well clear because there was a couple guys that, hey, man, it’d be nice if we asked, no, that’s not our style. If somebody wants to come, we’ll welcome them with open arms, but we don’t try to pull anybody. If you come here and I would have parents that would call me, they start hearing about the calls and the success and from different states and they’d call and say, hey, well, look, I got a kid, he’s really in the contest, calling, well, what do you do for your callers? And, man, that raised a big flag and I let them say what they say and I said, hey, listen, listen, I didn’t call you, you called me. And you kind of struck the wrong nerve with me because when you asked, what do I do for the callers? Well, you’re in it for the wrong thing. If you’re looking to see what you can get out. Like, I mean, like a pro staff thing, whatever. Like, oh, you’re going to get this and to get this, get this, the guys that blow our calls, they’re there because they want to be. And in one way, I don’t feel like I don’t do anywhere near like I should probably form. But in another way, I feel like I’ve done a lot. And I’ll get into that in a second. But I mean, if you want to come, be here because you want to be, not because what you think you may or may not, get out of it. But as time went on, the one guy, one of my head guys, Teddy Hoover, I’ve watched these guys get driver’s license, start date and get married, my houses, have kids. But Teddy, he came to me and I mean, it’s been years ago. He said, I need to ask a favor of you, I’m like, ask a favor? What do you mean, ask a favor you don’t have to? What do you want? I need broken glass for you, Davin. What? He said, well, I want you to marry us. Him and his fiance, Devin. And I said, do what? And I started laughing. He said, no, I’m serious. I said, well, Teddy, one thing, I’m not a preacher, he says, oh, no, you can be. And I’m like, you’re really serious? He said, yeah. I said, well, Teddy, I told you there’s nothing on this earth I wouldn’t do for you, but I’m not doing that. I said, no. I tell you, no, not doing it. He goes, well, look, it’s not me, it’s Devin. Devin’s one that wants you to do it. I said, man, that’s her biggest day of the year man, that’s her biggest day of her life. Women, that’s what they. No, you don’t want some goob like me doing that. He goes, no, she’s the one wants you to do it. So anyway, I became an ordained minister and I married them. So then John Walls, he 3 peded this year, he won the world the last 3 years in a row. He’s getting married, he says, Taylor, I need to ask a big favor of you. I’m like, Walls, you don’t ask favors, you tell me what you want, you got it, buddy. He said, I want you to marry us. I said, oh, no, I’m not doing it. I said, I did one, I’m not doing it. He said, no. And then my wife said, how can you marry Teddy and you can’t marry John? I’m like, you know what, you’re right and so I married him. So now I’ve got another one coming up this late spring, early summer. He goes, hey, so this will be 3 now. I’ve watched these guys grow up from kids. And when I say this, I mean because I try to be as humble as I can, I honestly do, I’m not a chess beater. And sometimes you can be a good influence by being a bad influence. I’m not saying I’ve been the best influence on these guys growing up all, but I’ve probably been a good influence by being a bad influence of not what to do, whatever. But anyway, I’ve watched these guys grow up and to say that, that their family would be an understatement. I mean, I’m closer to them than I am blood relatives, I’ve got. They are my family. And my wife is, their godmother or whatever you want to call it, man. I mean, like, they love her more than they love me. But we really are a very tight family. I mean, and then it all came through a goose call. When I look at how many doors that have opened for me because of goose hunting and goose calling, and that’s what I say, like going back to my father in law. How forever grateful and thankful that I’ll always be to him and my father, the way he supported me. My father got to see me win the world championship, he got to see me the calls, he got to see me win the champion of champions, I won the champion of championship in 2005, it opened up a lot of doors. Getting back real quick to John Walls, so he’s getting married and so I talked to his wife, Casey, and I said, and then John’s a runner. I mean, like, he’s not a puppy guy, he’s a down necker. And so I called Casey, I said, hey, listen, I’m going to run some stuff by you. And look, this is your big day, so if I’m way out of line, say it. I’m not sensitive, you’re not going to hurt my feelings. I said, but, look, John want to get his groomsmen goose calls. And so what I was going to do and she contacted me and said, look, I want to get him something special, I want to get him a special goose call. I said, well, let me make a recommendation. I said, I’m going to make him a goose call and there was an artist by the name of Art Lame, and he did a print of a pair of geese, and it’s called Lifetime Partners, those geese mate for life. And I said, how about if we put on there, John and Casey and the wedding date and put Lifetime Partners, and I’ll give it to him after I announce you as husband and wife. And I said, but, look, here’s what I’m going to do now. This is where you can tell me we absolutely are not going to do that, and that’ll be fine. I said, look, so he’s going to give his groomsmen these goose calls. Well, I’ve already told all the Team Shore thing in the audience to bring their goose calls to this wedding. And after I announce you man and wife, I’m going to present this goose call to him from you, and I’m going to say, okay, John, call her in. And as soon as he starts blowing his call, then the groomsmen are going to kick in, and then all the guys out in the audience are going to kick in. And she’s like, that’s absolutely perfect. Yes. So we have it on video, and it made it to what’s that show called? Ridiculousness. I didn’t see the episode, but they said it made it on that. It’s like redneck weddings or whatever. But so I go through the videos, the weddings being videotaped, and I announce them husband and wife, and I present them with this goose call, Lifetime partners and I wish you all a lifetime of happiness and this, that, and the other. Okay, John, try it out, call her in here. Well, he starts blowing, well then his groomsmen and they were going back, when he gave them to them, they were going to their trucks to put them in there and I got them off to the side, I said, no, keep those in your pocket, I told them what’s going on. They’re like, oh my gosh, this is going to be perfect. I couldn’t tell them before because they didn’t know they were getting them. And so then they chime in, so John Walls, he turns toward them like what? And then all the guys out, the audience, team Shore thing, they’re out there blowing theirs but he turns back to them, then I pulled mine out of my pocket, I’m blowing it. They’d just been but it suiting for a 3 time world goose calling champion. I mean, it was right up his alley. And that’s what I’m saying, when you think of what a goose call has done for me in my life, my whole life has since I was a late teenager revolved around goose hunting, goose calling, goose calls and the people that I’ve met and the friends that I’ve made from it. I mean like all of my friends now are through goose hunting and goose calling. And it goes back to being so thankful of meeting my wife and her father introducing it to me, many years ago.

Ramsey Russell: That’s fantastic. Well, what a fantastic story to end on. What an amazing deep dive and story about Eastern Shore goose hunting culture. John, I really, truly appreciate you coming on here today and sharing your stories. I’m glad I got to meet you up there at Charlie’s back this past season and I really appreciate you coming on to share your story.

John Taylor: To say it’s an honor is an understatement, man. I mean like, I said, this once again is just something else in my life that’s happened because of a goose calling. And meeting you and then, and the following that you have and I mean I’m humbled and honored to that you would even, ask me to do that. And I thank Charlie and hopefully you come back next year and when you do, we’ll get together and hopefully we’ll shoot some ducks. And next year they’re saying a 30 day season, one bird limit, but hopefully you can come when the goose season’s in and we can share a goose blind together.

Ramsey Russell: If I come back, can we go hunting over a junkyard rig?

John Taylor: Absolutely. And listen, honestly, let me know when you’re coming so that I can make arrangements and we will absolutely, 110% do that. Absolutely.

Ramsey Russell: Thank you, John.

John Taylor: Hey, thank you. I certainly appreciate it, buddy. I wish you the best.

Ramsey Russell: Folks, thank you all for listening to this episode of MOJO’s Duck Season Somewhere, Eastern Shore goose hunter extraordinaire, Mr. John Taylor. Go check out link below. See you next time.

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