Ramsey Russell Worldwide: Jeff Foiles

Rocky Leflore: Welcome to The End of the Line Podcast, I’m Rocky Leflore in the Duck South Studios in Oxford, Mississippi. Joining me from Utah Double R. Double R, you killing anything?

Ramsey Russell: Boy, it’s been amazing this morning 9. Last morning out here in Utah and hunting the last few days with Tony Smith and Rich Bills and they’re divers specialists. And the crazy thing about this Rocky, we’re hunting out here in the great basin, the Great Salt Lake greater complex, but probably within 10 or 15 miles of the duck fly radius of where I’ve been hunting the entire time and you go by all these little macro niches, these little green wing teal very shallow or Shovelers or mallards but Tony specializes in divers. So for the last 3 days we’ve been chasing redheads and canvasbacks and been pretty darn amazing. I have fallen off into this corner of the world and I knew there was duck hunting out here, but I had no idea it’s been a lot of fun.

Rocky Leflore: Coming up in just a minute is another Ramsey Russell Worldwide. Ramsey you stopped by and sat down with Jeff Foiles.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah. And that was a lot of fun. He’s on the way and I have never really met and shaken hand with Jeff. We talked on the phone several times and of course I listened to his podcast like half the other duck hunting world and very informative. And I was coming back from up North and just found the opportunity to swing by and it was really cool. It was really a nice visit to finally shake hands and realize he’s just a regular guy like the rest of us. There is a small little town between the rivers between Illinois and Mississippi rivers, little islands, little point that comes out and man, it was crazy like, it’s no big roads getting in there. It’s not like just kill off I-55 drive a quarter mile and you’re at this little town. Heck, no man you pull off the interstate and the next several hours, I was getting progressively smaller roads. And I never will forget as, I was within about 7 or 8 miles that little town he lives in on the left was hills and on the right I can see it there probably a couple of miles was the river and in between it’s just corn. And so the last, I don’t know 5, 10, 15 miles I was just looking at that good old Illinois corn on the right, that’s corn country and meet up with Jeff at his shop. It’s everything you expect a duck call maker shop to be. Geese and ducks hanging everywhere. And I parked the truck out front and I’m walking in and man, it sounds like a flock of geese up inside, it was shop from the outside, it’s him in there tuning a goose call. And I got there kind of late, he stayed around to wait on me and walked in and met him. We talked, he said, are you hungry? I go, man, I’m starving. We just walked, I don’t know, half a block distance is a little old catfish shack I guess and it was just – ate some fried catfish and French fries and then went back and sat down and visited. Just had a nice visit. It was just like me, you’re sitting across eating hamburgers, something just talking. And I don’t know, I can’t remember now Rocky, it’s been a few weeks exactly what we talked about, I remember just catching up and talking about a lot of different things and just had a real good visit.

Rocky Leflore: I will always say that 2 stories that really changed the trajectory of this whole podcast was yours that really slung, kind of put it in a slingshot and really propelled it forward. But then then Jeff Foiles behind it man, just 2 stories that put The End of the Line Podcast on the mount. Those are 2 stories did.

“I’ll say you this, on the hills of Jeff’s podcast on The End of the Line podcast on a hill of his series, I drove up north did that Northern Tier and everybody was abiding or tagging and really cognizant of some of those issues and how it affected them, whether they were just duck hunters or commercial outfitters. And I told Jeff, I think I told him during our recorded conversation that he had probably done more to make people aware of a lot of those issues than anything I’ve ever read in any DNR Gazette or federal digest or anything else over the years.”

Ramsey Russell: Yeah. I’ll say you this, on the hills of Jeff’s podcast on The End of the Line podcast on a hill of his series, I drove up north did that Northern Tier and everybody was abiding or tagging and really cognizant of some of those issues and how it affected them, whether they were just duck hunters or commercial outfitters. And I told Jeff, I think I told him during our recorded conversation that he had probably done more to make people aware of a lot of those issues than anything I’ve ever read in any DNR Gazette or federal digest or anything else over the years. He really opened a lot of people’s eyes including my own just how critically important that kind of stuff he is. And he’s a super guy and I really just enjoyed, just visiting with him. I just love so much to meet with real duck hunters and it doesn’t matter if they’re famous, like Jeff Foiles or just regular folks. Everywhere I go, I get to meet and talk to just real duck hunters and see their little slice of heaven I call it and it’s always eye opening, it’s always enjoyable. And I would like to meet with Jeff again and revisit some issues that we talked about after the podcast. Just some ideas he’s got and I think would really do good things for the hunting community. I really do, I think he’s got some great ideas to open up hunting opportunities and help get young people involved. Just a very knowledgeable guy, very interesting guy and I’m really proud to call him friend and to have met him.

Rocky Leflore: Well, I don’t know if you know this, while you’ve been in duck blind this morning but Lee Kjos. Lee’s a good friend of both of ours and Lee’s been on the podcast lately and talking with him about his story. But I want you to know the Joe’s family is in our thoughts and prayers because Lee lost his son in law.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah.

Rocky Leflore: This past weekend or October the 21^st that would have been on Monday.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah, that’s terrible. He and I talked about that and it just breaks my heart especially for the surviving daughters. That’s just a very sad thing. Godly, how many times you step into a duck boat and go hunting and you just never, so we kind of forget about that part, the danger part of it like that. And I’m deeply sad and I hate that for the whole entire Kjos family.

Rocky Leflore: Yeah, I mean you guys that are listening to this, please remember them as because he leaves behind Lee’s daughter, his wife and they had a twins, right?

Ramsey Russell: Yeah, 13 year olds.

Rocky Leflore: We go hunting in these places and we think that because we’ve done it so many times, we just don’t think anything about what we’re doing but some things happen quickly duck hunting from a boat.

Ramsey Russell: Life in general man. And we’ve talked about this a lot and I would remind everybody please keep that entire family in your prayers but also go home and hug the people you love and let them know it because you never know.

Rocky Leflore: Well. Ramsey, I know that you are busy and I know that you just got done hunting there in Salt Lake, are you headed back home now?

Ramsey Russell: I’ll be home tomorrow. I’m heading home tomorrow. And it’s been a wonderful visit. And I can tell you all this won’t be the last time. Matter of fact, I told all these boys I’ve hunted with next time you all see me, I’m going to be in the U-Haul saying howdy neighbor because it’s a good hunt out here boys. I’m going to tell you all right down. But the thing that kind of got to themselves back home in the Deep South, you can’t talk about public land. But here you kind of can because nobody just going to show up with a sack of decoys and run a game on these guys. I’m going to tell you right now, you better know what you’re doing and where you’re going. It’s a real big area. There’s a lot of stories of people getting stuck and getting lost and out in this body of water. Rocky, the wetland size, it is based on averages about a 3^rd the size of the entire Mississippi Delta. And it’s all marsh, it all looks like in the dark. It’s an amazing wetland but there’s no just going out there, I can tell you that. These guys like Tony, he specializes in divers. Some of the guys that are running airboats and getting off the beaten path, you better know where you’re going and what you’re doing. You really better and it’s a whole different game.

Rocky Leflore: Oh, it’s a shallow water.

Ramsey Russell: It can be. Now, we have been hunting in shallow water. Where you hunt these divers is in deeper water and by deep, I mean waist deep and it’s got to have these birds are real specific to the sago pond weed out here. That is the food source for the divers and you find it, you start finding these birds and it’s just very interesting. When you get off in that shallow water around those field this time of year, what do they call that? Alkali bull rush seeds. And then later in the year a lot of birds are transitioning to eating Brian shrimp.

Rocky Leflore: Brian shrimp, that’s right.

Ramsey Russell: And I don’t know how these birds find all these different habitats but they do. And it’s been a huge adventure and a huge eye opener. And I know a lot of people have been following our story on Instagram but anyway, Rocky I enjoyed it and we got to go clean some ducks now. We got to clean some ducks. Anyway, thank you all.

Rocky Leflore: All right, have a safe trip back. But let’s get to that interview with Jeff now.

Ramsey Russell: This is Ramsey Russell Getducks Ducks Season Somewhere. And I’m in a little town called Harden on the banks of Illinois River. I drove up to the shop this afternoon and I wondered if I was at the right place, I think it was an old John Deere building. I walk in and there’s geese and ducks hanging from the ceiling there, I don’t know at least a million calling awards hanging up on the walls. But even as I was walking in, I could hear a flock of Canada geese beckoning me to walk through the door. Sitting across the table from me is Jeff Foiles. And Jeff, how are you?

Jeff Foiles: Good man. Especially after that catfish we just did.

Ramsey Russell: Oh yeah. So we just finished eating dinner. Best catfish I’ve had in a long time. And I’ve always wanted to meet Jeff I wanted to stop by and visit with him and just kind of follow up on some of the topics. I just got back from a big trip from Michigan to Alberta and all around the Northern Tier. It took about a month getting around and what struck me is how every single person no exceptions except for 3 Canadians that aren’t subject to that. But every single person, every single outfitter, every single hunter, every single guide, there were more yellow tags flapping around and going on and birds being tagged and head and wings and left and birds being label and going in the freezer and Jeff, I really attribute a lot of that to you. I think you’ve had a profound impact on the way things have happened now.

“Well, for telling a story on the podcast to with just everything that happened to me and telling the story, I don’t think anybody believed it, it could be that harsh. It could really happen to you between myself and when Ryan Warden but man, just like Fed said, we’re going to stop this party hunting and guide shooting birds and all this and then piles of birds and all that. And they try to make a good example out of me doing it and no matter whatever ever happened, if it helped everybody else is all worth it.”

Jeff Foiles: Well, for telling a story on the podcast to with just everything that happened to me and telling the story, I don’t think anybody believed it, it could be that harsh. It could really happen to you between myself and when Ryan Warden but man, just like Fed said, we’re going to stop this party hunting and guide shooting birds and all this and then piles of birds and all that. And they try to make a good example out of me doing it and no matter whatever ever happened, if it helped everybody else is all worth it. Right now, like you said, everybody’s tagging, I was a distant New York and we’re killing 15 birds apiece and we’ve got a big pile and I go no way man, we ain’t doing that. And I looked up and here come them guides and they all got stringers with yellow tags from Ryan or whatever. And I’m like wow, I can’t believe you guys got this said, oh no dude, we’ve been listening to all this, we ain’t even getting closer and it was kind of funny. One day I think our limit was 90 birds that day and we killed 90 and we could have killed 190^th of them it was so good and they had 2 young boys up there and they had only shot once or twice and they basically bought the gear and there was bass guy, but they come out there and kind of let me run the show, but they were just kind of with them. And those boys trying to get them shooting and no, we’re done, we ain’t getting involved in this shit. So, it’s really good that people are following that now. I mean, it’s a shame the way it come about but yeah, everybody’s following that across the country now.

“There were times listening to your podcast, my palms sweated and there were times listening to your podcast I ground down my feelings, it just so disturbed me in an angry type way. I was really glad to hear the rest of the story and to see how it works but I’m really glad. Everybody I’ve been talking to on these little podcast episodes, it’s just a different way of thinking now I think, than it was back then.”

Ramsey Russell: I hate you had to go through all that, I really do. There were times listening to your podcast, my palms sweated and there were times listening to your podcast I ground down my feelings, it just so disturbed me in an angry type way. I was really glad to hear the rest of the story and to see how it works but I’m really glad. Everybody I’ve been talking to on these little podcast episodes, it’s just a different way of thinking now I think, than it was back then. And I think conversations like yours have changed that narrative.

“So it’s really need out to see that all the different private messages and stuff that I’m getting now from people that gets it now. And we changed everything and we’re tagging birds and we’re doing this and we’re watching limits and we’re watching, we’re letting guys shoot, we’re stopping 3 or 4 birds short of limits because they’re scared to death. And I’m glad that they’re not going to get in trouble for this and they’re paying attention.”

Jeff Foiles: It has. I think everybody’s seen how serious it could be, where mostly everybody would think that would just be a ticket you would get and maybe lose your license for a year or something. But it got pretty, I don’t know what you’re going to say, out of control or whatever, it did, but it got pretty devastating for me. And if I helped everybody though maybe that’s part of it. So it’s really need out to see that all the different private messages and stuff that I’m getting now from people that gets it now. And we changed everything and we’re tagging birds and we’re doing this and we’re watching limits and we’re watching, we’re letting guys shoot, we’re stopping 3 or 4 birds short of limits because they’re scared to death. And I’m glad that they’re not going to get in trouble for this and they’re paying attention. But then deep down the old school part of me is like Ramsay, me and you went out there and we’re buddies and we went out there hunting, we took 2 more of our buddies out there and we could kill 20 ducks and we got 20 ducks laying there in a pile all of us got our license and we’re not over the limit. What is the difference? That’s the old school way of thinking to me, but that’s the way it is.

Ramsey Russell: It is the old way of thinking. And I get where they’re coming from because all these migratory Bird Treaty Act rules to prevent market hunting which is a story unto itself. I mean, I get it. This is a resource we’re not selling birds for meat anymore and things like that but at the end of the day it’s almost like gun control. If you want to – why do we have these antiquated rules? If you don’t want people to sell ducks at the market, then make it illegal, you don’t have to ban guns, just make murder illegal and enforce that rule, that’s just the way I look at it. And when you start talking about party hunting, I get where they’re coming from and we abide but at the same time 4 guys sitting in a blind 50 green wings come in, are we supposed to take turns into that? Because there’s not enough opportunity in North America today for us to take turns on volleys.

Jeff Foiles: And you brought up something good there, I’m glad you did. So, there’s 50 green wings come in and this happened to me several times last year while I was on the river and we have a pretty good wide of them come in and 4 or 5 guys get up and shoot and they ball up right in front of you and you tell me who killed them?

Ramsey Russell: That’s right. I mean, I get if you were on one end of the blind and I was on the other guaranteed –

Jeff Foiles: And you got a mallard going his way –

Ramsey Russell: You shot one and I shot the other we know. But when you get 4 guys or 5 guys in a blind because you’re all buddies and it’s expensive to hunt and have your individual blind anymore, what do you do? I mean everybody could shoot their zones but still.

Jeff Foiles: Right.

Ramsey Russell: 49 or 50 teal or 8 teal died hat’s 2 apiece. That’s how the math works.

Jeff Foiles: That’s the way you got to do it. You might not know exactly – and you take kids hunt, I think that’s the biggest part of this. You and I take out 2 of our kids or grandkids out there and they just started shooting out there, them kids are going to shoot all the time, they’re probably not going to hit much. So we’re going to shoot with them and if they don’t get anything down nothing falls, they’re going to burn out and they’re going to get tired of it. But they get a few ducks down, they think they killed them. You know what I’m saying?

Ramsey Russell: You’re right.

Jeff Foiles: It makes the cuts for them. So I don’t know, the old school part of me can’t go for this, thinking you ain’t ever going to stop it, the party hunting but they come in separate – boys, all I can tell you is when that dog brings that bird in and brings the extra, you start separating right there and you start giving them away and you separate them, put them on stringers and you have your tag ready at the end of the deal and you have them separate you won’t get a ticket.

Ramsey Russell: I hunted with some folks up in North Dakota that actually attached your yellow tag to your stringer before the hunt starts in the dark, before the hunt started and let’s just say 5 guys in a blind and this stringer got 6 ducks, unload baby and enjoy the show, pour the coffee and enjoy that’s how it works and that’s fine.

Jeff Foiles: And the big thing is going to be for the boys out east this year, they got a 30 day one goose season, they’re going to have to watch it. I’ve played that game before here in Illinois and Michigan one time guiding. You have to watch those guys like a hawk who killed what and the guy you love then is the guy that the bragger here, hey, I killed that one, good here you’re done. Put your tag on and you’re out of here and unload your guns.

Ramsey Russell: The way I prefer to hunt, the days that I just truly ultimately enjoy would be me in the blind or me and you in a blind or like 2 guys in a blind and you shoot, I shoot, it’s just unreal, it doesn’t conform today’s standard when it maybe 4 or 5 or 6 of us but I get not stacking those birds up like cordwood. We can break them up, we can separate them, we can do some stuff like that and it’s really not that hard and these tags aren’t that big a deal. But I’ve been shot – we were in Canada and I mean, everybody had their pile of geese and we all had our tags ready and everything else and we were out there laying them out for the picture, rows of 8 dark geese as I’m been over getting everything done somebody walked up, I just assume it was one of our hunters and it wasn’t it was a provincial law enforcement and how in the world he snuck up on from half way across the open field, I don’t know but they did, he just kind of appeared. There were no big deal, he’s friendly as can be and he wasn’t rude or impolite at all. We shook hand, we talked, I showed him my gun, showed him my license and as we broke out the yellow tags, he asked what is that? And we said, well for tagging the birds and he says I’ve never seen that before. And I go well it’s a federal law in Canada. He said well, I don’t enforce it.

Jeff Foiles: They don’t. I’ll never forget one time – I never got checked probably, 3 times in all the 20 years of Canada whatever it was. And that one time I did was on a duck hunt and I had 10 of us out there so we could kill 80 birds. And so we had him and we piled them in the back of my trailer. And I’ve seen the guy coming, I’m thinking and these were all hunters and they’re in a suburban and I got my trailer, so the natural thing is to throw them in the back and forth as the trailer and he’s going to club and clean them but we’re all different vehicles. I’m not thinking a lot about it because it was Canada and I didn’t think nobody – this guy pulls up he comes back and open the gate and I said boys we got a ticket coming and so he just opened it up, looked at he goes, how many you got there in that pile? And I said, well there’s 80 birds in there. I said, maybe 79 because I double counted and I said, but there ain’t 81, I promise you. And he said that’s all right. He goes, Stan’s a good guy, the outfitter I know him, everything’s good. And I’m thinking he didn’t say a word about it. When they came into my shop and on me that day when all the feds and everybody came in on me and we sat down there and talked. They asked me what I would do on a normal hunt, what happens on a normal hunt? And so I explained to him. I said, let’s just say us 3, there was a state game warden and the fed was there. And I said, let’s just say all 3 is hear, 3 birds come in, I told you guys get up and shoot, I’d let you shoot first “boom, boom” and then finally I get up and shoot with him and we kill all 3 of them. And I said, dog brings them all in there’s 2 drakes and a hen. I’ll ask you first who killed them birds, you kill them birds? You’re probably going to say I don’t know what I got, so I’ll probably take the hen myself put in my pile you can put the drake in front of each one of you. And that fed turned around and looked at me and goes why wouldn’t you just throw them down and I’m figuring out what and I said, I looked at that state warden and he kind of looked at the fed and he goes because that’s the law here, you got to separate it. He didn’t know it, that’s what I’m saying. He didn’t – he come in and he didn’t even know that.

“And what it is, I thought about that I go, it is the law and how can I be hunter conservationist and break that law? It’s little and insignificant is antiquated though it might be I think, it’s still the law, as long as on the books how can I be – I can’t be both. I got to abide the law to be a hunter conservationist.”

Ramsey Russell: I’ll say this though because I have not always tagged bird it’s funny like, if I’m have been to an outfitter 2 states over in the bird process we’ve tagged, we put them in a cooler when I have imported birds from Mexico or from Canada for somewhere, you declare them on a 3177 form, you go through the paperwork, you label your content or your cooler and you got your birds tagged but I’ve never really, I mean in years passed let’s say for the last 10 years I’ve got a leather ducked tope that’s just got my name on it. And I’ve always figured whose ducks are these? Well, that’s got my name on it. Now, it doesn’t have my signature and my address and nothing else like – but we hunters are foot in the bill for conservation, we all know that and we’re carrying a weight and we consider ourselves hunter conservationist, we’re leading in wildlife conservation. And I guess now that I fully am aware of what the law is, like somebody asked me on inbox, they said well how long it’s been a law and says since 1918. But it’s kind of becoming a big deal now. And what it is, I thought about that I go, it is the law and how can I be hunter conservationist and break that law? It’s little and insignificant is antiquated though it might be I think, it’s still the law, as long as on the books how can I be – I can’t be both. I got to abide the law to be a hunter conservationist.

Jeff Foiles: And your mind you don’t think that but it’s the way it’s supposed to be. I just don’t think they ever push it and I’m not even sure they taught them that about years ago, because I never heard of that before until –

Ramsey Russell: It’s kind of a big deal.

Jeff Foiles: It’s a big deal.

Ramsey Russell: I feel like we hunters – and I just feel like, I travel around the world I see Australia and the Netherlands and I see these other countries and I see these other conflicts and I see some of the stuff going on in America with regards to hunting and when I really think about it, I think myself I’m a little worried that hunting is hanging by a thread and we’re being looked at and scrutinized by a lot of people. And I think okay, if it’s as simple as filling out a tag, I’m going to fill out that tag and it’s going to be legal, this dude abides legal is cool.

“And it’s not that big a deal. It’s just seems to be a big deal because when I run my duck club up there I did not want to deal with leaving that wing on the breast that’s a pain. And its nasty putting them all together with a wing on it and I just absolutely didn’t want to deal with that, it takes a bigger bag and takes up more room, so I said well what can I got to do and I swear to God Ramsey trying to find out the law on that was unbelievable.”

Jeff Foiles: And it’s not that big a deal. It’s just seems to be a big deal because when I run my duck club up there I did not want to deal with leaving that wing on the breast that’s a pain. And its nasty putting them all together with a wing on it and I just absolutely didn’t want to deal with that, it takes a bigger bag and takes up more room, so I said well what can I got to do and I swear to God Ramsey trying to find out the law on that was unbelievable. I mean, you got to rig, you can call and not many people knew the answer to that. So, I called the picking shed in southern Illinois, I’ve been in business for years and they told me what you got to do and they said it’s basically real simple, you have to have a logbook that tells the hunter’s name, the date, their address, their hunting license number, the species of the bird whether it was a mallard, drake or hen or hen drake whatever it was and you need to logged that in this book and you put that same information goes onto a tag and that same tag goes right in that bag in there and once it’s in there it’s over, it’s done and I can throw them things in my freezer then, I can throw in my freezer at that point and here comes – your grandma can come and pick them up. Because they are tagged and your name logged everything, so that’s the way picking sheds work. And so it’s no different than a deer process shed. Once you process that and put that at a processing market, anybody going to pick it up if it’s already been tagged and they see whose bird it is and all that, so that’s what we did at my duck club. I mean we process that whole thing. So, then actually what happened then they kind of use that against me. Then they used the party hunting thing as I killed 5 of those birds instead of you killing, you know what I’m saying? And then took that thing across the state line –

Ramsey Russell: All in the count.

Jeff Foiles: And then it was Lacey axe. So you really got to be careful out there. I mean whatever you do, I mean you got to be so careful with it all.

Ramsey Russell: You do got to be careful. I learned the definition of conservation as wise use. That’s 2 words being smart about it to preserve that animal and perpetuated species and then use meaning consume. And so with that definition in mind, there are a lot of little wrinkles. For example, just coming back from Canada, I can process that bird, I can breast him or pluck him with a head or wing attached and bring him across here but I can’t make sausage. So it’s almost like counter intuitive to my using that bird if I choose to eat him, you know what I’m saying? And so now I’ve got to struggle with gifting that bird, maybe I want to eat that bird.

Jeff Foiles: I know the pain of it. I stayed up there for months for 50 days at a time, I used to and it was tough. He killed all them birds. You want to, you want to take some back and he might take them back to get mounted and it’s a tough deal. If you want to take some back to eat and get mounted it. And Phil Robinson and I had always talked about that, so you have a possession limit of 2 days limit, whatever 2 or 3 days limit but we also have a law that says you can kill 6 ducks a day for 60 days that’s 360 ducks. You tell me somebody that can eat that many. I can’t eat them every day and eat that many ducks. So once you tag this, once you log this and all that, why is it any different than a deer when you put that deer in your freezer? Because you only kill 1 or 2? But you eat on him all year long, if you follow what I’m saying?

Ramsey Russell: I do.

Jeff Foiles: There needs to be – I think the feds need to redefine that somehow where if you’re going to keep them in the freezer, it have to be logged in the log book or tagged or whatever your tag has to be logged in the log book, so if they come to your house here it is, there’s that tag it’s in there, so prove that – you follow where I’m at? So you can keep these birds so your family can eat them all year long and don’t have to worry about you haven’t 20 days limits in your freezer because you like ducks and you want to eat them this summer. So, I think it really needs to be a – there’s too much.

Ramsey Russell: I wish they could get the biologist and law enforcement together just may be re-evaluate it. For example, here’s something that kind of just always one of the things that make you huh? Netherlands is a very socially progressive country liberal socialistic and they banned goose hunting but you can hunt them under depredation permits and nonetheless you can sell those geese and you go to a natural store like a health food store and you buy goose for Christmas and it’s got a little BB hole in it because it was shot by a hunter and those birds are being consumed.

Jeff Foiles: That’s awesome.

Ramsey Russell: I mean, is market gunning – is the commercial use if it’s some kind of way I’m not saying that we go rape pillage and plunder the resource because there I’m just saying shouldn’t we want to see those birds every opportunity made to see those birds utilize by somebody?

Jeff Foiles: Exactly. Because a lot of people and probably I’m going to say half the hunters don’t like them, they don’t like to eat them. And you know that well as I do. They love to hunt them, loved to hunt and they’re trying to find something to give them to all the time. And they usually do they find somebody but it would be nice if they could do that like, when we were in New York we killed all those birds and tagged him on that, how can I go up there for 5 days killed 300 we killed our group killed 310 birds can’t eat all them things. You know what I’m saying? So we did give the Army food bank and different things like that. There should be more of that. There should be more of like, you said like another one said, not a high dollar for them, there should be something where you could sell them, you could do something with these birds, so everybody could eat that. People do like it. So these hunters that don’t like them could get rid of them some way somehow where somebody else could consume them. So there needs to be something –

Ramsey Russell: I would like to see it re-evaluating, I’ll tell you something funny, I was in Australia the limit was 10 ducks a day and they don’t differentiate between hens and drakes and species, it can be 10 of anything or in aggregate. And so we had gone out and shot limits of ducks and some beautiful timber. And we got back to the truck and we drop the tailgate and said, well let’s clean these ducks and I’m breasting with head and wing attach, you know like you do. And he goes, what are you doing mate? I go, I’m leaving the wing attach. He goes, why? I go, because isn’t that what we are supposed to do and he go, no. He said no, take the wing off as a matter of fact filet them. So, I began to explain to him our rules. Well, I got to have her a wing attach, got to show the species, he said, well there’s 2 hunters and the limits 10 apiece, that’s 20 ducks or 40 breast halves he says, our game warden’s smart enough to do the math –

Jeff Foiles: That’s great. See I’m with that. I’m all about that.

Ramsey Russell: I mean, I’m not criticizing our rules. But I’m saying there might be some room and balance in there. As a matter of fact, I don’t know enough about it to speak highly intentionally or authoritatively about it but I do know this right now there is proposed sweeping changes to parts of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act in Canada that’s coming from their biological side. And it’s got to do with possession. If the birds are processed and frozen once that meat is frozen they’re no longer in your possession. This kind of odd to me because these are the numbers guys, these are the guys that are really watching the bank account so to speak in duck inventory and so I wonder to myself, I really want to meet with that guy, I really want to know more about this proposed log. I’ve heard it pretty odd and changing. Why do they want to do it? I think, I know why I would want to do it. Why can they do it justified through the numbers of the bird biology and what implications would it have here in the US with another migratory Bird Treaty Act partner? Maybe none but possibly.

Jeff Foiles: So, how hard is this with this tagging system with the processing system that’s been in forever? How tough is this? Most of us duck hunters write a diary what you do every day anyway, a lot of times mostly for wind or for weather changes or whatever. If you’re going to fill this tag out and that tag usually has a number on it or whatever and has your date and the amount of ducks and whatever, how hard are you keep a log of that that matches that tag on each date, write this down. You want to put that in your freezer, you put that tag in there and you hold a logbook and let’s say you hold that log book for 2 years and I know, I think you want to keep it for a year. But anyway, if you keep that logbook safe for you, you just turned yourself into a processing plant. The way I read the rule, you can absolutely do that, that’s how we did it. We never got no ticket for that because we had that all right down as a club doing that as a processing plant. So, I don’t see why that can’t go into factor where you’re not – birds in your freezer is not your possession. Like you said once they’re froze, they’re part of your years limit.

Ramsey Russell: I do. I’m one of the parts – I do enjoy eating duck. I really do enjoy it and I enjoyed a lot of different ways, enjoy geese. These guys are here calling snow goose sky carp just – they haven’t eaten fall or spring snow geese. It’s some of the best out there truly.

Jeff Foiles: Oh, yes. My son and I eat them all time.

Ramsey Russell: I love them. And I really do like them but our law says, I’m just saying – to me in other words I don’t care whether you eat the duck or not if you want to hunt them, hunt them. I don’t believe you have an obligation to love eating duck meat. Some people don’t like to eat calf liver, some people don’t like a lot of different things. But I find it very interesting that when those birds are at my domicile – now, if I’m at hunting camp I’ve got a process head or wing attach or I can put them in my truck, carry them to my domicile, my home and pitch them right in truck. And it just seems to be some inconsistency and I’m all about, look the difference in a bird watcher because I’ve known these guys that’ll fly it up Bangkok to find a certain bird of to check off one little do hickey bird in a tree for his life list. But the difference in those guys and hunters as conservationists is where is that guy is content to see one bird we want to see millions.

Jeff Foiles: Exactly, right.

Ramsey Russell: So, we all want these birds to be around and I don’t want to see just 10 mallards so I can shoot 4 of them, I want to see a million of them just so I can experience it. That’s what I want. So I’m all about that but your podcast is really made me think and re-evaluate and just made me say, well I want to there are just some inconsistencies with all these rules. Of course, congress so busy trying to get Trump out of office will never get around talking about ducks again, I imagine. I’ll change the subject a little bit because I got a question for you is, we were eating that catfish tonight for dinner and talking visiting. You got talking about going to Mexico and doing some of the stuff back when you’re at the heyday of your career. Everybody knew you, you’re a Rock star, I’m going to call you a rock star and I knew who you were, I’ve seen your films but I didn’t know you then like I know you now. Jeff, you’re still – I don’t use the word celebrity it’s like that era has passed, it’s like Lee Kjos was talking about he and I were talking about, there’s no more rock band. I mean, there’s no more led Zeppelin’s AC-DC, there’s no more –

Jeff Foiles: I wish it was.

Ramsey Russell: Those days are gone and I think the same thing has happened in our industry and other industries but you still are very well known and very influential. In fact, I would say your influence maybe greater now than maybe ever.

Jeff Foiles: Well, back then everybody followed you because it was hard hitting and a rock and roll and to kill them and 5 months of hunting and all that. But now it’s more, it’s a whole different era, from advertising to the internet to shows are different, it’s a whole different era. And if you don’t step up to that era right now you’ll just be a sinking ship. And it’s tough and like after this all happened to me it’s like almost when it all changed at that time it’s about the time it all changed and all went to that. So, I come out after 13 months being gone and like it’s a different era almost overnight it seemed like and that’s when I remember being in prison and it was a TV and watching and I remember the 1^st episode of Duck Dynasty coming on, I’m sitting there going, yeah, I know them guys all I’m duck guys like yeah, sure. But it’s almost like that’s when it all started, all changing and everybody decided so why don’t you sell decoys? Because you can sit at home on the internet or work on the internet in order from like Rogers sporting goods and they’ll ship them for free for you and why you want to go – it’s just not that going to the sporting goods store and checking it all out like it used to be and there’s none of that no more it doesn’t seem like, I mean, I bet Cabela’s or Bass Pro can tell you that, it’s nothing like it used to be, let us get online in order. But hopefully with all this stuff that happened that, now, I can help people from going through what I did and see it at a different aspect or whatever and take it to a different level that way. I retired this year from iron working and I turned 62 this year and I got my self-security and all that and I thought I was going to retire I’m working harder right now than I ever had I think, I’ve got in here this morning at 7 o’clock and –

Ramsey Russell: Love what you do then it’s not work.

Jeff Foiles: Just love what you’re doing and then it seems like, while people are just with that podcast and everything I think people saw real or exactly what happened and what could happen to you. But one thing we did this weekend, I want to talk a little bit about, did you see the deal online about –

Ramsey Russell: Yeah, I did. I kept on what you do on social media for sure.

Jeff Foiles: It came out so good. It was just one of the most, all the contests I’ve been going through for years and I mean, centuries. I guess, but decades, I should say but it was probably the best one I’ve been to at the world last year I think had 23, 24 callers in it, we had 21 unbelievable good ones. All the money went to St. Jude.

Ramsey Russell: Oh, that were all over the US.

Jeff Foiles: Boy, from Minnesota and Missouri, all over the place and it was really good. Had one boy from California duck calling and had a lot of them, so it was really good and all the money went to St. Jude’s and we raised 4,950 bucks or something like that for St. Jude’s and just that one day. So that was really cool, how it all came about and I hope there’s a lot more of that because contests are starting to out and we did it in Tim grounds memorial, that was his hometown and he’s kind of a legend in the sport.

Ramsey Russell: Iconic.

Jeff Foiles: And yeah, he was the trunk of the goose hunting tree and everybody else is kind of branches that come off of it. And then his boy Hunter and you know Hunter? Hunter called him last week I said, are you going to judge? Because he’s supposed to help me judge. And he go no, I’m going to blow it, I go, what do you mean you’re going to blow it? Aren’t you supposed to help me judge? And he said no, I’m going to blow it, I ain’t going to practice, but I want to blow it. He blew the best routine I’ve ever heard the kid’s since he’s a little kid, best one ever and he’s won everything. And he won by several points and he went very well should have, it was just like dad reached down and put his shoulder on him like, kid you’re going to do this.

Ramsey Russell: He have little incentive though.

Jeff Foiles: Yeah and he had a little incentive to do it and he blew 3 miles and just smoked it, not one person in that whole building cars anybody would tell you that he didn’t deservedly win that thing and it was really cool. It was kind of like when Dale Senior crashed and got killed at Daytona the next year junior come and won the race, it was kind of like that. It was really cool. So, we’re going to make that an annual thing and keep it up. We have some very good sponsors. We had $25,000 worth of prizes. It was crazy. It was really good time.

Ramsey Russell: Jeff, what’s next? What now? Where do you go from here? With all the buzz – I know you’re getting letters and people sending you mayonnaise and all kinds of goodies.

Jeff Foiles: Yeah, that’s pretty funny you just talking about that mayonnaise, that Duke’s mayonnaise and you got your tangy ketchup now. So, anyway I got the other day and I thought, I usually go there’s always calls and boxes and stuff to retune I mean, that’s a bunch of calls on that one is heavy and I open it up and it was a guy sent me some Duke’s mayonnaise there and he wrote me a nice letter here and just how kind of changed his whole ways of thinking and everything. I mean, like I said all along, I wasn’t innocent at all. But at the time they had me as an axe murderer and I think showed people that it was a little different story that could happen to them at the same time. But yeah, that’s kind of where do I go? I don’t know. I’ve done this stuff. I’m doing some stuff now. There’s just a lot of exciting things going on. I mean, it’s like waterfowl goes for a long time and nothing special happens. And your water fowl there, what’s one thing you think really changed it at the time?

Ramsey Russell: Oh, I don’t know. Habitat, decoys, there’s a million different things –

Jeff Foiles: There’s a bunch, but I’d say one thing that sticks out in my head more than anything is a mojo. And you know what, that did to duck hunting overnight, it instantly made a lot of people duck hunters. But this new – and you do this step there today and I ain’t been excited about nothing for a long time like that, but that and I’m really picky as I’m sure you are about my shotgun shells I shoot. My gun and my shelf and I may use a certain decoy or do whatever for sponsorship or whatever. But here comes the shelves and I’m not going to. So Lee was telling me, Kjos was just telling me about this Boss Shotgun Shells and I’m thinking, well, so I had to go to Minnesota to do a show for Mankato shields up their shield store. And so I took an extra day and I said, well I’ll come up and see it. He knew he was going to prove it to me and so I went up there and we shot that the new boss shells. That’s the most exciting thing I’ve had since the mojo. And after going to New York and shooting all them geese, I’ll tell you, I shot them at every height close, far, high, out wide everywhere. It’s the cleanest shell I’ve ever shot.

Ramsey Russell: What size shot did you shoot at those geese in New York?

Jeff Foiles: Well, years ago when I shot lead. I reloaded on my lead for years and when lead shot was in and I would use a double A hull with 37 grains of 571 and a lot of times I would mixed 4s and 6s together, it’s a duplex load. And so they built me some 3s and 5s together and that’s what I goose hunt. I shot a little over a case of them up there.

Ramsey Russell: No, I have shot every ammo I could get my hands on, every gimmicky hyped up buzz every – and I’ve always just found that the basic work just the best – look steel shot today is not steel shot, it’s much better than steel shot yesterday year, but it’s still a steel shot. And I had the opportunity to shoot some of this new copper plated and I was astounded. I shot it down in Argentina and the boy I was with the Argentine guy I was with, he didn’t notice that I had gone from lead to this but he had noticed the hits and he kept looking over his shoulder at me and I finally took off the shelf and explained it to him and everything else. And then the buzz as I got back to camp, walked out after a shower and coffee kind of out there on the porch all the staff was acting by the El Hefe, the boss. And they noticed the difference and then Lee and I went back several weeks later and I was just back there in the bird boy room and it just blew my mind that, these guys are going through 6 times, let’s say 50 paper boxes a day of shells at times. It’s just trash throw it away with the whole putting the bird pile and burn it and they’re in their little room was that empty box of El Hefe, they kept that box. It was like that magic shotgun shells from America and that’s kind of – don’t take my word for it. There’s a guy that has lots of ducks die with lead, but I’m enamored with it. I took some 2 and 3 quarter inch 5s and 4s up to Canada shot everything from cranes to teal. And I can see using the bigger loads, the heavier shots, sales side on taller shots and bigger birds but I’m really liked the way that stuff performed. And I tell you it’s not just the performance to that shell, I like the vibe. I like the narrative to leave – I like the narrative this thing is sending out this old school vibe.

Jeff Foiles: It looks like an old super X, XX shell highbrows shell –

Ramsey Russell: It performed as much as lead everything I have ever shot. 

Jeff Foiles: Lee asked me what I thought and I said it’s led on steroids. That’s the way I see it. It’s faster, its cleaner and after sent to gel packing after shooting geese, it’s unbelievable penetrates even better and the consistency of it is unbelievable. I mean, there’s a pattern sitting right there, it’s just unbelievable what they do. And those boys up there, I think – the problem I’m going to see is what you said, is people got to get in their head when they buy it that this is not steel, you don’t have to have BB’s or 2s or whatever. You’re back to thinking like lead was and there’s very few of us left the shot lead.

Ramsey Russell: It is. And I was talking to a man up at game fair and I said well what are you shooting? And he says 3 inches and 3.5 inch steel tubes. I said, what’d you shoot back in the good old days? And he smiled. He’s smile, he goes, I shot 2 and 3 quarter inch number 4 and I whipped him with, I said why don’t you try a box of that? I mean, go try. I started with 6 and 7 because I can tell you most of the places I hunt in Mississippi 6 and 7 that’s what I grew up shooting 2 and 3 quarter inch of 6 and 7 a duck and I think it worked fine.

Jeff Foiles: Anything you got in a pothole like we had a pothole right here just 2 miles up from us across the river up there, I never shot anything but 6s that’s all we shot in there the 6s. But those boys, I was from Georgia was long had went and ordered 2s they figured 2s for these geese. But I will say this, they destroyed them with it. I mean, the thing I got about it was when you go out there and pick them up, they’re dead. They’re not cripples their dead.

Ramsey Russell: Oh, it’s cold and dead.

Jeff Foiles: You can see it when it hits them, it’s hitting them hard and not a lot of cripples at all and if you’ve got to reach out there and get one, it’ll do that too. I mean, we had some shots that, I don’t know how I’m going to tell you, a yardage but it was ridiculous. Some of the yard and some of the stuff was.

Ramsey Russell: And the difference in you look at all the different things that we buy and we put into hunting to kill our 4 mallard or 6 ducks or whatever ammo really is in the deal breaker of it all, like a duck boat or these decoys or leases or gas or all the different stuff. I mean, but it makes such a huge difference in it. But I tell you what attracted me initially and what I really sense along the Boss Ammo storyline is, when you talk to Brandon who I talked to last night on recorded or I talked to Lee or I watch your social media, it’s the message they’re sending and it’s like this renaissance of old school conservation. And it’s like clean effective kills know your pattern, know your distance and hunt respectfully. I like that message.

Jeff Foiles: Right. And a lot of people say well, what’s the deal? You bought this box that it comes all your shells right in a plastic bag and they give you 2 boxes and this little bag to put them in. Well you stop and think about this. How many times have you seen wet boxes, pieces of boxes laying over the field in layout blind and at the end of the day it’s wet in your bag and all your shells is laying all over your bag rusted up after 3 days in a mess. And this new deal that they’ve got this little canvasback that goes in there and I knew when I seen that, that’s Lee Kjos, that’s old school waxed Filson type Lee Kjos that’s what it was. But it’s the smartest thing. I mean, forget we hunt a lot of duck blinds here, we always put a 2 before up here right here, put your shells on, well they’re wet and shiny red boxes and all the holes sticking out. Now, you got to nail up there. You just throw that little sense rope on there and he reached down there and get it was the coolest thing in the morning. I’m going to my case of shells and fill this bag up since that thing throw it in my bag and no shells went in, that was a good –

Ramsey Russell: I thought the red boxes looks so cool but I was a little neutral on them having just a big box and plastic bags out. But see I use those leather ammo belts and so now I just bring my ammo belt reach in there and grab handfuls and load it up and put it on my bag. I don’t have boxes to open, I saved moments and hassle and don’t make as much weight.

Jeff Foiles: It’s just everything about the cool system and like I had some guys say, well man, that’s a lot of money and I don’t – It’s not much more money than anything else and what – the performance that is doing for you is unbelievable. Like you just said, for conservation and the money you pour in that boots set of waiters, so all this stuff –

Ramsey Russell: That may not make it through the season.

Jeff Foiles: Probably won’t. And I mean don’t short yourself on ammo. I’m not going to go out there with my Hoyt defiant bow out there and shoot wooden arrows. I am not going to do that.

Ramsey Russell: What it’s going to take the new generation though? These guys that are – I mean if you got a 30 year old hunter lead hasn’t been legal in his lifetime in America.

Jeff Foiles: There’s no idea.

Ramsey Russell: But you remember when the state – when we all made a conversion from lead to steel, we all had to go out and pattern and adjust and open up our chokes and figure all that stuff out, well now it’s going to be, you got to do it again because this stuff like a tighter choke and it throws more uniform pattern. You just kind of need to know what you’re doing but I love it. It’s one of the most exciting things in duck hunting to come down the pipe in a long time.

Jeff Foiles: It is. And I make a choke tube called a straight heat choke tube and I want to try it up there with leaves and that’s what that pattern is, but I’m just so happy it worked so great with that tube, it was kind of a great partnership –

Ramsey Russell: Sure.

Jeff Foiles: With my tube and that shell. And like my buddy said the other day, he said, he was asking me all about it, he said, I’m reading everything or is there he goes, now I can go out and take my dad’s old model 12 and I can shoot that with this.

Ramsey Russell: That’s the fact.

Jeff Foiles: I can shoot all my old guns with this. And they’re shooting they’re making for 28 gauges and 20 gauges and all this, it’s awesome how they’re making them for all these different guns.

Ramsey Russell: I’ve got a couple of projects that I’m working on. I’ve got a – my old Granddad gun is like a 1972 Remington, 1100 no vent rib, just round barrel. And I wouldn’t shoot steel and it’s got just a real – the barrel is modified not to choke and a lot of those guns got foot barred with steel came along, but we all knew not to shoot it. And I guarantee you, I’m going to shoot some ducks with it this year.

Jeff Foiles: Yeah. When I was a kid you had 30 inch full was a goose and duck gun that was a big deal or 28 but you had to pick – a lot of people don’t even realize that that one didn’t have choke tubes. And you just take a dime or a quarter in there and see if it was full or modified or whatever it was. If it would go through it was improved or modified. Yeah, it’s a whole different ballgame now, but it’s kind of cool how they took what lead could do and made it, so it is organic and it’s safe, it’s environmentally great and everything and now there’s less crippling and it’ll do what lead did what we had because we all felt like we lost something for years.

Ramsey Russell: I think we did.

Jeff Foiles: And we did lose something. I’ll have to give it a lot of the manufacturers that with steel but took them a lot of years. But now, they’ve got a lot better.

Ramsey Russell: That’s right, it’s better but it’s still not –

Jeff Foiles: I mean, he built it with a steel like when it first started –

Ramsey Russell: It’s still don’t have the killing power of lead. I’m sorry, it does not never will. The whole dynamic of steel just never is going to equal something like lead or just bismuth 10 alloy they’ve come up with.

Jeff Foiles: Well for me, I don’t know. I’m sure there’s a lot of Benelli guys out there listening that I love my Benelli. And I shot 3.5 inch everybody said, what do you shoot 3.5 inch 3s at ducks, I thought 3.5 inch BB’s at geese. And why did you do that? Well, the bottom line is real simple when it’s got more shot out there, so when your video and you’re filming it puffed them better and killed them better because nobody wants to see misses and cripples. So I shot that but with that and I’ve got calcium deposits on there where you have seen by getting to whom this thing gets got so bad. I mean, I had a metal splint across my finger duct taped on there all year long because it was just pounded until it was raw. And I’ll never forget going to a shot show to a meeting with Benalli and what’s wrong with your finger? I said, some 3.5 inch shells and I peeled it off and my God, you need to get a doctor and I said, I’ll be all right. So, I go up to New York and shot over case of shells up there in 5 days and my fingers just like it was. Them things don’t kick, they don’t kick hardly at all. And I was shooting 3 inch of 3s and 5s and 3 inch shells, I could not believe how it – I never felt my shoulder, I never felt anything about it. And the other part about it was, I did a little video clip and showed it when I opened my gun up and I’m not doing this as a boss commercial, that’s not why I’m telling you all this, I’m just excited about it. When I took my gun up, you see my gun, you can protect out of it. It’s got to quit working for all cleaning. This thing was as clean as I left my house.

Ramsey Russell: That’s right. I saw you post that up and I shot about 700 rounds in the last month and haven’t cleaned. I’ll squirt the action with a little rim or something like that because it’s a Benelli. But other than that my gun’s clean. It ain’t near about and they are clean right now.

Jeff Foiles: No, it’s ridiculous and you take one of those empty holes, you take any other shell and you look down it’s full of powder. You can take one of those empty holes, it’s clean.

Ramsey Russell: Right.

Jeff Foiles: It’s reloadable right there.

Ramsey Russell: That’s exactly right. Yeah, Jeff I’m fixing to hit the road man, I still got a long way through the night but I appreciate your time and I enjoyed this.

Jeff Foiles: You’ve got a few stops, let those dogs out and air them out and all that kind of stuff along the road.

Ramsey Russell: They better hold it.

Jeff Foiles: They better hold it.

Ramsey Russell: Guys, I hope you all enjoyed this. Follow us on @RamseyRussel.Getducks on Instagram and thank you all for listening.

[End of Audio]

LetsTranscript Transcription Services

www.letstranscript.com