Anna Van Nostrand grew up in Georgia hunting small game and deer with family, but her introductions to feathers–shotgunning, waterfowl, upland birds, retrievers and pointers–launched her full-steam ahead into the future with newfound purpose. After talking about our recent experiences at Safari Club International convention (hint, it’s more than worlds-largest hunting show), we discuss getting involved into the waterfowl community, etiquette, becoming involved in the waterfowl hunting community, plantation hunting, getting women involved into the outdoors, why ladies aren’t more involved, and how hunting shapes lives.
Ramsey Russell: Welcome back to Mojo’s Duck Season Somewhere podcast, where today I’ve got the legendary Anna V in the studio. Anna, how the heck are you?
Anna: I’m great. I can’t believe we’ve got to see each other so many times in such a short amount of time.
Ramsey Russell: Well, that’s because you make the rounds during convention. You pop up everywhere Anna.
Anna: Do you feel the same way about saying that this past week was one of the best conventions we’ve ever had?
“Safari Club International, since it moved to Nashville especially, it’s kind of a can-to-cannot work week for me.”
Ramsey Russell: Yeah, I do. Safari Club International, since it moved to Nashville especially, it’s kind of a can-to-cannot work week for me. I mean, for seven days we’re going at it from the time I wake up to the time I fall exhausted asleep. I skip all the dinners and conventions. I’m worn out after networking and doing stuff on the floor. I don’t know how you guys do it. I know some of these guys stay up late and get up and do it again. I just can’t hang with them. But it’s really one of the funnest weeks of my year. I really enjoy being at Safari Club International.
“This past year, you were a rock star in saving duck hunting in Australia.”
Anna: I do too. It’s overlooked by so many wingshooting communities. This year, I felt like we had a massive breakthrough. Every corner I turned, I was able to have a wingshooting conversation. Whether it was an actual hunt or it was guns and gear or about dogs, it was always in my face. When I first started with SCI, probably five years ago, it was all about gun rights. I felt like our wingshooting world was missing a lot of topics going on daily from the advocacy side and all the work you do. This past year, you were a rock star in saving duck hunting in Australia. People should still be talking about that. Everybody should still be talking about what you and Robbie and SCI, I’m sure there’s a laundry list of other people, did. But you guys were the faces of saving duck hunting in Australia. I just don’t think people realize how close things got here for us as wingshooters.
“I truly hate to say it, but I don’t think we would be in the shape we are in here in America without Safari Club International.”
Ramsey Russell: We did our part, that’s for sure. I can’t take full credit because there are a lot of guys down in Australia fighting the fight too. Those antis won’t go away. They’re just like a bad STD, a blight on the real world. I was very fortunate and thankful that Safari Club International came in. That’s what they do. I’ve heard of SCI forever. When we started going to Safari Club International, it was just a way to go and exhibit and sell hunts. But I didn’t know until I started participating that they are to global hunting what the NRA is to gun rights. These guys are deep in the trenches, around the clock, a full staff, a lot of volunteers, fighting tooth and nail, not just for hunting here in the United States, but worldwide. So many of us like to travel. The thing about hunting rights is if it falls in Australia, or in the UK, or anywhere on God’s Earth that the antis are clambering around, it’s going to end up back here in our backyards. I’ve learned so much about the fight for hunting here in the United States, the diabolical way that anti-hunters move like carbon monoxide, secretly and behind the scenes, to shut down the stuff we all love to do. I learned that through Safari Club International. They send out those emails and keep us posted on the battles they’ve discovered, fighting for my rights to hunt, to take my kids out to a duck blind. I truly hate to say it, but I don’t think we would be in the shape we are in here in America without Safari Club International.
Anna: I agree. It takes everybody. We love our wingshooting groups and communities, but there’s just something really special about Safari Club. I feel like no matter what position people hold, everybody’s accessible.
Ramsey Russell: Yeah, I agree.
Anna: There’s some type of family culture they have where everybody’s meeting with everybody. It doesn’t matter if you’re just a state volunteer in your hometown committee, you’re going to be on a first-name basis with some of the most iconic people on the floor. It’s just so crazy when you get in that room. I always talk about how I’m the minority of minorities here as a female wingshooter. Think about all the hunting icons represented there with the big game worldwide hunters. Everybody is seen and everybody is celebrated. It’s Amazing.
Ramsey Russell: How many exhibitors do you think there are? In all the years I’ve gone, I have never walked the entire floor. I come in early, usually do a podcast or meet with somebody or get set up because I like to run early. Sometimes I’ll jump over to see a few people I know, but usually, my glimpse of the show floor is on the walk into my booth. So I come in and make a spin, but I don’t ever get to just stop and look and walk. But I’ll tell you what I did do, I looked down one of those main aisles. I was on aisle 500. There were aisle 3700, I think. I don’t think on my best day. I take that back, I could, but I would need to prop my .300 on a rest to shoot a deer on the other end of that exhibit building. That’s how big that place is. Every single animal, fish, and fowl imaginable on Earth, you can meet somebody that can put you on that critter. Let alone the furs and the jewelry and the art, the clothing, and everything else that goes with it. It’s incredible.
Anna: The other thing about it is you have that long aisle, and if the doors are open, there’s no way you could see from your aisle 500 all the way to the end. There were so many people there. I don’t even know if you could see to the next aisle over. It was slam-packed, crazy busy all the time, but not in a miserable way. I was telling Colin when we were walking around and came to see you, I was like, don’t you feel like we’re walking around the halls of high school? Every time you turn the corner, there’s another bestie, and you’ve got to talk and get caught up. It was just great. I’m still on cloud nine.
Ramsey Russell: There’s a lot of friends I’ve made. A lot of friends I’ve met. A lot of people I only see there at the show, if I’m not in a duck blind or hunting with them. It’s kind of like a family reunion.
Anna: Yes.
Ramsey Russell: What all meetings and events and stuff like that do you go to there, Anna?
Anna: This year, I finally got to come to your seminar. I forgot what I skipped to come there, but it was so funny because Matthew and I were walking down the aisle, and he wanted me to go somewhere. I said, “It is Ramsey’s last seminar, and I keep missing it.” If you didn’t turn the corner, it was like God was like, just go. So I ditched him and went with you to your seminar. It’s so cool to see the people there invested in our world. That was really what I wanted to see all the wingshooters that come to this event that may do other things. That’s probably the biggest thing. The majority of our world, all year round, we’re with people just like us.
Ramsey Russell: Yeah.
Anna: But then when we go to SCI, it broadens our horizons. I have committed to do a bobcat hunt, a mountain lion hunt, and a leopard hunt.
Ramsey Russell: Wow.
Anna: Like, I know I’m gonna do the cats coming up because of all the temptation and the taxidermy. It’s like, oh, I want one of everything in the house, especially if I shoot it. So that kind of suckered me in. But the main events, I typically do them all. I came in on Sunday and started with the Music City chapter, which is the Nashville local chapter for SCI. Started with their banquet. Love starting the week off with them, and then we have Monday off, which is the big board meeting. Then we host some guests that night that we work with throughout the year. So we ended up at the Scoreboard, which is my favorite place in Nashville. Best wings in the world, and they always have great entertainment. Tuesday is Beretta Gala, so everybody gets all dolled up to kick off the actual convention week. Then we have opening ceremonies on Wednesday morning. Wednesday night we ended up doing something that was private. Then Thursday night was the big banquet. We supported Larry Bell. He received a big award that night on Thursday for Amy Bell Charities, which is part of the SCI Foundation. They have a mission called the Blue Bags, and people that hunt all over the world can go through the SCI Foundation to obtain these Blue Bags. They are filled with items for orphanages or the lower-income community. On your hunt, you take time, especially in Africa, it’s very popular for them to go and share the Blue Bag love and use some humanitarian efforts on their hunting trips. It makes everyone there feel empowered because a lot of times we see the husbands go hunt, and the wife tags along for the safari experience. They really get connected to this Blue Bag mission. That becomes their whole meaning of the trip when they go. So that was really powerful to see him recognized. And like you say, there are events that start at 11:00, the after-parties. After the banquets, there’s usually a big concert. Then after the concert, it flows into the after-parties, and those end up on Broadway. It’s fun. It gives you more time to catch up with people that you don’t see. Friday was the same thing, and then Saturday was another big banquet, and Dierks Bentley played after that. So I’ve lost my voice.
Ramsey Russell: Yeah, I noticed. I did too for a little bit. I can remember barely showing up over 10 years ago to my first convention. I was overwhelmed with the awe and grandeur of the world’s largest and best and most kick-ass hunting show on Earth. But then Safari Club International being what they are, I began to get plugged in. So my events are, maybe I’m recording in the morning, but this year I did go to the record book committee. I’m chairman of the sub-chair, they call it, of the Game Birds of the World awards platform. That’s always an interesting meeting, seeing all that stuff because SCI is so big about the game book records. Then I went to a Boone and Crockett breakfast and met a lot of people. Gosh, at night I was just out to dinner with clients or just dinner and gone to bed, and it’s all I can do. I guess I’m getting old and slow.
Anna: Oh no. Okay. So there are two things you’re probably not familiar with. The Sables Luncheon, which is a banquet during the day that starts at brunch time with bottomless mimosas. The ladies get together, they have their own auctions, and it’s a room just full of women. And it’s in the banquet hall, just as grand as the night banquets. That was actually really fun. I had not been to a Sables Luncheon before this year, and I had time. But the one group that I’m so proud to be a part of is Women Go Hunting group because I’ve been involved with them since they started. Denise Welker, the wife of the current president of the foundation, Brian Welker, really sought to create a place where women that are hunters at the show can come together and spend time meeting each other without an agenda. So a lot of these events that you and I attend, there are speakers and auctions or things going on where we tend to communicate some, but we don’t have the freedom to have long-lasting conversations. So the Women Go Hunting is a mix-and-mingle on Saturday morning for two hours. The whole purpose is for women to come into a room and meet other women. It takes all the intimidation factors out of it. Even if you come by yourself, just to walk into a room full of ladies, you’re going to be bombarded with new friends coming up, introducing themselves, talking about what their favorite things to hunt are or their iconic trip of the past season. Before you know it, you’ve got invitations to go anywhere in the world that you would want to go and hunt any species under the sun, and maybe even learn about new ones. So I find that to be very exciting.
“As I have created Women of Wingshooting through Anna V Outdoors and invite women to use my experiences to not make as many mistakes or just figure things out quicker.”
As I have created Women of Wingshooting through Anna V Outdoors and invite women to use my experiences to not make as many mistakes or just figure things out quicker. I try to share all the stories from my journey to help them. So that’s a great place to go and find ladies that want to go wingshooting. And you talk about the record book, I use that all the time for women to make plans of where they want to go and what they want to shoot because it’s very overwhelming site. If you’re surrounded here in Georgia, there’s so much more to do than just quail hunting, but that’s really all we talk about because that’s what’s local. We’ve got wood ducks, but where we are up in North Georgia, there’s not a whole lot of them. There’s not even a lot of goose hunters here. So using the world record book as a tool to educate other ladies, these are all the options you have in the United States, or in South Africa or South America. They’re all grouped together and then using that experience to recommend lodges I know they could be very successful and even if they wanted to plan just a ladies hunt, they would be very comfortable in doing so.
Ramsey Russell: Anna, I appreciate you. We fell off that SCI rabbit hole because we’re both ardent supporters of it. And by the way, I do appreciate you coming to the seminar. I fell into those seminars a few years ago, and it always makes me nervous. I’m like, what if nobody shows up? Matter of fact, the first day I did it, it’s like five minutes before it’s go time. It was me and Char Dog, my wife, my aunt and uncle, and three or four other people. I’m like, oh my gosh. And sure enough, by the time the bell rang and it started, five minutes afterwards, we had about 30, 40 people in there. Just people started piling in.
Anna: Let’s pause and give your wife some credit. Her face is never anywhere, and she doesn’t ever want it anywhere. And I always drag her into everything I have going on when she’s around. But she’s such a powerhouse for you. She’s always there, and nobody ever sees her.
Ramsey Russell: She’s the brains of the operation behind the scenes. That’s right. Thank you for giving her a shout-out. But look, I want to swap gears. I want to talk about Anna V. And first off, Anna, I know you as Anna V. What is your whole name?
“My name is Anna Van Nostrand. And it was too hard for people to spell or pronounce.”
Anna: My name is Anna Van Nostrand. And it was too hard for people to spell or pronounce. So when I first got started, a buddy of mine started calling me that, and it stuck. And then my oldest daughter, J.C., when she was in high school, all the kids started calling me that. So it kind of gave me my own identity, I guess.
Ramsey Russell: And where did you grow up?
Anna: I’m actually in North Georgia.
Ramsey Russell: North Georgia girl.
Anna: Yep.
Ramsey Russell: What did a young Anna V. do in North Georgia growing up? Like, how did you get into this hunting stuff?
Anna: Well, I grew up in a hunting family, but they were all about whitetails and some turkey hunting. And it wasn’t until in my 30s that I got a short hair.
Ramsey Russell: Oh.
Anna: And that short hair really did change my life. So she got to be six months old and was a, you know, she’s like a crackhead circus. Everywhere we went, we were showing horses. So I was traveling with this short hair at the show barn full of pigeons, and talk about a nightmare. It was crazy. So, yeah, I learned to use the free pigeons for training purposes, and it worked out. But I had a big learning curve. So I ended up with a trainer, and I literally just got passed along the way. I had this great conversation this morning, I was telling you, with Ducks Unlimited about telling this story, because DU launched my entire career. I had no idea that there was a world like this where you could share your love of hunting, create opportunities for others, and build that as a job. I was completely clueless about that. And so, through getting a shooting instructor back in 2016, I was just going through a really rough time in life and was like, where am I? Who am I? Where do I want to go? What legacy do I want to live? And I wasn’t as great with horses, as much as I loved the horses. And then I got this dog, and it’s just like everything fell into place. I had a lot of struggles. Just learning to shoot, I had every kind of issue possible, like wrong eye dominance, you know, cross-dominant. I’m right-handed, but I shoot left-handed. I had the wrong gun. It was like everything was wrong. And then, on top of it, I’d added this crazy short hair. So we all needed a coach. And my local DU chapter chair had reached out to me and asked if I would help them bring more of a female presence because I was teaching women pistol basics. I started in pistols, but the culture of the pistol world didn’t really match my lifestyle that I was living at home and being raised a hunter. So I just fell right into it, and they got me the right coach. Within 17 months of my first lesson, I won state in super sporting, so in the clay games. And I was like, I just love the dogs. I want to get back to the dogs. The dogs made me want to be a better shooter. They made me want to learn more, experience more, share more. So I took what I was doing with the pistol world, coaching ladies, and I just brought that into the shotgun world. I figured, okay, if I can get enough clients here every single day, then I could shoot every day. So that’s what I did. I just tried to camp out at the clay course. And being involved with DU and then Quail Forever, Pheasants Forever, doors continued to open. I was filming Gun Dog TV like my second year in the industry, and I just had so many amazing mentors. Like, just for instance, the messages that we share back and forth, they steer my direction. You created so much opportunity for yourself, and then you give so much back to the industry. It’s like, okay, I have had people in my life like that to just help me along and be like, okay, this is part of the legacy that I want to live. I want people to think that they can count on me when they need direction. So, yeah, I’ve just continued to walk through the doors that were open and make the best of them.
Ramsey Russell: Well, you got a bird dog when you were 30. What did you do the first 30 years of your life? You grew up in a deer hunting and turkey hunting family. Did you go out with your papa deer hunting or what?
Anna: Yeah, I was always stuck in a man’s world. I’m an only child, and so my dad just threw me in their world. So I went to school for, I wanted to draw house plans. I kind of get back into that a little bit, which is really funny. But yeah.
Ramsey Russell: What did you do for fun? I mean, you talk about horses, you talk about deer hunting. I mean, what’d you do?
Anna: We did horses. We did horses every day. Like we were showing. I was at the barn like six days a week. And then, when I got my bird dog, I just switched into bird dogs six days a week.
Ramsey Russell: Why’d you get a bird dog? I mean, I can understand if you were a non-hunter and a horse person, maybe getting a Red Heeler or something. But not a bird dog. How’d you end up getting a bird dog?
Anna: Well, the circle that I was in, there’s a guy here by the name of Tommy Wiley. And if you’re in Georgia, you probably know him, especially if you’re in the hunt world. But he was a roper, and he was like an adopted uncle to me. He came to all my ball games growing up all that stuff. And so he got these short hairs. I’m like, that is the cutest dog I’ve ever seen. So I fell in love with his first female. Her name was Jen. And so, at the local biscuit place where all the farmers go, we would go there in the mornings on the way to the barn, we were sitting there one day, and Jen was about to have her first litter. And this guy that I’d gone from kindergarten to graduation with, his brother was big in the tournament hunting, and Tommy had gotten into tournament hunting. And Tommy started roping less and doing more dogs. And I’m like, who the heck does that? You just get your dog and take your dog with you, right? So all this stuff was going on, and everybody said, okay, well, are you going to get a dog? And I’m like, well, I’ve waited all this time to get a dog. I guess I’ll just jump in with everybody else. Everybody else is getting dogs. I’ll get a dog too. So we were all buying puppies out of the same litter, sitting there eating breakfast. And so I got her, and everything changed. I don’t really even know, looking back on it, I’m like, I could not recreate this if I tried, even though I’ve lived it. So I got this dog. She was absolutely beautiful. I started shooting. I won state. I was hosting ladies’ events all over, just in this local area, not knowing that there was a whole national platform to move on to. I was just answering the demand that was around me. I wasn’t marketing. I didn’t even understand Instagram platforms and all that kind of stuff. Somebody said they wanted to go, I was like, well, I’m going this date, just come with me kind of thing. And so I was tournament hunting, and I was terrible. So anybody that doesn’t understand tournament hunting is, the best most fun thing you could ever do.
Ramsey Russell: What is tournament hunting?
Anna: UFTA was where I started in the South. I fell in love with the BDC games, but there are multiple organizations with slightly different rules. So the first game that I ran in the South was about the same size field, about a 10-acre field. They plant three birds, you’ve got a bird, a quail, in the front, the middle, and the back. And they plant them in different sections so that there’s a grid. The field’s laid out in a grid, and you’re sequestered plant, so you can’t watch the plant in front of you or your plant. And you literally hunt your dog on the clock. Fastest time, least amount of shells used, most birds bagged wins. Okay, so it’s like rodeoing with your dog. I was terrible. I mean, I was so bad. I think I was the first female to start running in the state of Georgia. And Hallie Jo was like three, four years old. So I’m traveling, I know like two or three of these guys. So when it’s my turn, I’m typically just giving my kid to some adopted uncle or grandpa and like, I will be back in 15 minutes or less, because after 15 minutes you time out if you don’t have all your birds. So we just started like that. I’m telling you, people were just so good to us, letting us come in and coaching us up and encouraging us to keep trying. She got her short hair the next 12 years. Now, let’s see, she’s 11. About four years after I got my dog, then Tater got her dog, and she was three when she got her dog. So, yeah, we just kept adding short hairs and adding short hairs and running tournaments. And then my events took off, and I was hosting events all over the country and working with different organizations and found myself in South Dakota. And the funny thing is that when I first started, I had this hashtag, it was back when hashtags first started taking off, short hair snob. So here, DU had started my whole career, gave me so much opportunity here locally. And I was like, why do you all want those generic dogs? Like, what does it do? Just goes and picks something up and brings it back. Like, so uneducated, right? You don’t know what you don’t know. So I’m over here with the short hair people, and they’re doing everything with their dog. And I didn’t realize that most people don’t think a short hair can actually retrieve. That you’ve got to have a retriever to retrieve the bird that the pointer pointed. I mean, I was so crazy about it. So anyways, I started this hashtag, short hair snob. And I’m in South Dakota, and I start hunting with these Labs that are flushers, right? So they’re quartering, and they’re getting all birdie, and their tails are going nuts, and their ears are going flat. And it was just so amazing. I’d never seen anything like it. And all the wow moments that I’d had up to this, I’ll never forget that hunt right outside of Huron. And I said, holy smokes, my life has changed. So that short hair snob hashtag went to happy hypocrite really fast. Because the next thing I knew, I was running Labs. And I had switched games. At that event a guy had opened up a door for me to come and host a ladies’ event in Wisconsin. And I said, sure, I’d love to. So three weeks I was in Wisconsin, and we had booked out a ladies’ hunt there, and a blizzard came through. So instead of getting to have fun with all the girls, I ended up force-fetching on like 4 inches of ice for 10 days. I was like, I did not drive to Wisconsin to not shoot something. Like, force-fetching has been great and all, but let’s have some real fun. And so this group of people were running the BDC. So it was kind of the same size field, but they planted five chukar. And so you have plant cards. So if you memorize your plant cards, you can use the rules of the game in the field for knowledge. And it becomes this big, it’s just a game, but you can use your clues, where your birds are, to find your final bird. Anyways, I never ran a flusher field before. I only had that experience within the last month of running a flusher in the field. And I took second place in December with a dog that he had won Worlds with in October, and that ended up being my little’s grandmother. And so I ended up titling or winning titles with both of her parents through running the BDC and getting to train with them. Then I bought a trailer. And then the next thing I know, I’m traveling with 10 or 14 dogs, homeschooling Hallie Jo during COVID. COVID hit, and I was like, somebody just gave us a golden ticket to do nothing but bird dog. Because school was terrible, the world was terrible, and everybody was asking me to run their dog. So I was like, yeah. If it hadn’t been for COVID, I probably wouldn’t have got into dog training. I just pivoted to do what I could to stay in the game. It was so much fun. So that’s what I’m saying, if a door opened, I knew I had a lot to learn, but I knew that I was surrounded by the best in the industry. And as long as I tried really hard, something great was going to come out of it. That’s the one lesson that I’ve learned in the outdoors, That I’m not scared to face the unknown.
“I’m gaining a sense that I had of you all the times I’ve met you at convention, everywhere else, that when a door opens, you don’t just step in, you break it down and go full steam ahead.”
Ramsey Russell: I’m gaining a sense that I had of you all the times I’ve met you at convention, everywhere else, that when a door opens, you don’t just step in, you break it down and go full steam ahead. It seems like everything that you’ve gotten into, no half measures. You’re full steam ahead all the way. Learn to shoot a gun become a shooting instructor, get introduced to dogs, become a dog trainer. That’s pretty impressive.
Anna: Well, in my game I had to have good dogs, and I had to be a good shooter. And I didn’t like to lose. It cost too much money to show up.
Ramsey Russell: Are you competitive?
Anna: Just a little bit.
Ramsey Russell: Yeah.
Anna: My whole family is like that. And let me tell you, I don’t know if you’ve heard this or not, but our family is very competitive. And there were these two Ruger .22s with iron sights that kind of would go around our family at family events. If anything got a little boring, then they would break this out and people could outshoot each other. And so whoever won would get to take the guns home. Anyways, my grandmother usually won.
Ramsey Russell: Really?
Anna: Yeah, it was so funny. And so one year, a few years back, I’ve told this story so much, but SCI is so amazing, and our Georgia chapter, I always say, like, we just are so special and we’re genuine friends. So it was one night during December, my Granny had called me and we were just catching up, and she was reminiscing about my grandfather. He’d been passed away for like five years. And so the family wasn’t going to hunt camp like we had done for all the years of me growing up and all that stuff. And so she was just reminiscing, and I was like, do you want to go sit in a deer stand again? She was like, “No, I’m too old for that.” I mean, she was like 83, 84 years old. And I was like, “No, you’re not, Granny. You do whatever you want whenever you want to. If you want to go sit in a deer stand, we can get you one. I’ll find somebody.” I was like, “I don’t know anything about it. I’m out of the loop. But I have friends.” And she’s, “No, no, no.” So a little bit later, she brought it back up again. She did that like four times. And I finally said, “Okay, here’s the deal. Give me tomorrow and I’ll have you a hunt before season ends.” And she was like, “Well, okay. I think I would really enjoy that.” And I said, “Okay.” So it was the tail end of COVID, where we couldn’t find any ammo. We had like one box left of her bullets. She shoots a Marlin .30-30, and my grandpa got it for her when she was 17. So I went and picked it up from her, I went and sighted it in so it was ready for her. Then the guys here at Georgia, Trevor Santos, Chad Milner, they just rallied up and said, “We’re gonna get Granny a good stand. We’re gonna get her out there.” So, okay, let’s see, four of us sitting in a big shooting house. There were four of us, including Granny, and she took a six-point buck. And it was just the funniest thing because in our family, like, we didn’t trophy hunt or anything. Like, if you saw a deer, it was going in the freezer. No matter what it was, you know, that was just kind of their mentality. So we were trying to get permission for Granny to shoot a six-pointer, because that’s not really a shooter these days, you know. But Granny didn’t know the rules, and frankly, she didn’t care, because she was zeroed in on it. And as soon as Trevor said, “Yeah,” like, boom. She was not waiting on it. It was just, the timing was so funny.
Ramsey Russell: Eighty-year-old grannies have nowhere else left to give.
Anna: Yeah, I’m gonna take it. So it was just the sweetest thing to be able to give that to her. So she’s got it mounted and our picture on the wall.
Ramsey Russell: Can are women better shooters than men? Like, in your shooting instructions when you were an instructor, do women take better instruction than men?
Anna: I don’t like playing the women versus men game.
Ramsey Russell: Well, I ask that, I mean, you know, I mean I’m crawling into danger, I’m walking onto thin ice right now bringing it up. But I gotta tell you, the reason I ask that is, many, many years ago I was working for the federal government, and a shooting instructor from the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center told me, I was out there shooting pigeons. Man, pigeons were crapping all over the bulldozer and stuff, I was out there shooting pigeons, and we got to talking. And he just happened, I don’t know why he was at our station, but he was. And we got to talking, and he told me that he would rather teach a 25- or 30-year-old woman, he’d rather have her show up to his range and teach her to shoot than someone like myself that had been shooting probably with a lot of bad habits since I was six or seven years old. And he said, “Besides that, you guys don’t listen like a woman does.” So, and let me tell you this one more story I thought about when you were talking about your Granny. When I was 10 or 11 or 12 years old, out on a dusty Mississippi dove field, dove hunting as a little boy, I remember one of the fields we hunted, there was a lady named Miss Peggy. And even at 10, 11, 12 years old, I realized what a purdy woman she was. Oh, she was beautiful, just a beautiful woman. And she was always one of, probably because she was picking up after the barbecue, but she was one of the last people to show up to the dove field and always one of the, excuse me, one of the first to leave. One of the last to show up, first to leave. Because I paid attention, because she was pretty. I never saw the woman miss a dove. I mean, she would clean out her limit with far less than a box of bullets. And she was an amazing shot. And I was 10, 11, 12 years old, I didn’t dare talk to her about her shooting or how she learned to shoot or how to shoot or anything else. I just recall that all these years later, heck, when I was a 10-, 11-, 12-year-old little boy, I wanted to shoot like Miss Peggy, because she outshot all the men. But now, maybe not all people or all women shoot like Miss Peggy.
Anna: Yeah, and then there’s a lot of pressure, too, you know. I mean, it wasn’t until I got involved with SCI that I even had a female mentor. Denise Welker took me under her wing, and she’s not even a wing shooter, you know. And so, I just don’t really like playing that.
Ramsey Russell: I’m not being sexist or anything. I’m bringing that topic up. I promise you I’m not. But it is, you know, getting to the heart of something because l et’s just say, no offense to anybody listening, but let’s say that there might be a distinction between the average woman out there wearing camo on a duck blind and the average guy. There might be. It might be that women don’t shoot as aggressively. Maybe they don’t shoot as confidently. Maybe they don’t shoot as well. Maybe they, quote, “shoot like a girl.” I’m prefacing all this by talking about Miss Peggy, one of the best shots I ever saw. But I believe that, and I think you just touched on it, I believe there may be an underlying reason that really isn’t about boys shoot better than girls. I’m toeing around this subject, but I’m just saying, you were in your 30s before you had a proper mentor into hunting. That gave you confidence. And obviously, listening to you for the last little bit, you’re not shy on confidence, Ms. Anna. I mean, you’ve got to overwhelm. But why do women seem to be intimidated in hunting? Why aren’t there more women at the boat ramp? Why don’t I just drive up to the boat ramp, and there’s a bunch of guys and also a bunch of girls, and they’re without the guys? They’re just out there doing their thing. And I’ll say this too, I’ve got a very close friend, very, very close friend that again, it proved to be the exception, like yourself, like Miss Peggy in the duck hunting world. And she is a bonafide swamp witch. You know what I’m saying? A dear friend of mine,a very well-respected lady that has the confidence and the know-how and the dog training and shooting ability and knows how to hunt and grew up hunting. Why aren’t more women or girls like these exceptions? There’s got to be a reason.
Anna: My dad didn’t treat me like a girl. Her dad may not have treated her like a girl. I grew up in a construction family, so there wasn’t anything that I did that was like a girl, I guess.
Ramsey Russell: A stick.
Anna: Yeah. I feel very comfortable walking into any gun store and having conversation because that’s what my dad did with me. I didn’t know that that would be number one. I didn’t know that it was rare. I thought it was normal if you were in the hunting family and in the South, although everybody was hardcore Second Amendment, preaching about gun rights and Jesus and all the things. So I have put my foot in my mouth so many times not knowing any better because I was raised in this bubble that was like all-American kind of attitude, which is why I named my podcast All American Wingshooting Podcast. I want that to be my legacy. I don’t really apologize for hurting people’s feelings when I put our gun rights before conservation because if we keep our gun rights, then our people are going to supply the funds for conservation. That is going to happen. But the minute that we lose our gun rights, how are we supposed to keep people involved? How are we supposed to keep people coming to SCI, giving millions of dollars for conservation? What do we do now? Like what’s there mission? Right now, it’s all about family tradition, family time, getting in the hunting blind. No matter what kind of hunt you’re on worldwide, that’s what motivates people to write checks.
Ramsey Russell: But Mama is a part of that family see, and that’s what I mean, and to be outdoors. Your whole trajectory right now is about recruiting and getting women into the outdoors, educating them, be it with dogs, proficient firearm training, looking through the world record book and giving them ideas and inspirations for ways they can participate and where they can participate and finding their footing. But why? Is it just as simple as old-fashioned sexism that tells girls collectively that they should be playing with Barbie dolls instead of shotguns? Is that what it is?
Anna: I’m telling you, having this conversation and saying, like, there is a place for you. This is really what it is. I don’t know if it’s actually worked for me or against me in the past. I’ve seen it both ways. There are women that don’t have the confidence, which is why my entire mission is to help women build confidence through wingshooting. Let’s say you start off really spunky and on fire, adventurous in your 20s. Then life’s curveballs just suck the life out of you. Then you get caught up, mom life, wife life, all the things in life during your middle ages. And you wake up one day and you’re like, who am I? What am I leaving behind? I don’t even know where to turn. Sometimes just even admitting that is difficult. Even if you’re not ready to hunt, but you just want to get outside of your comfort zone, just take a whim and go do a shooting lesson at the clay course. Asking people to go hunting sometimes is a little hard, but you’ve got to do something to trigger your adrenaline, to get you out of that box. Even though I’m in the outdoor industry, I want to market to people outside the industry and educate them about how great this is. Because you and I are on a high from a trade show where all we did was talk about it. It’s not like we actually got to have the activity. But just being around these people that have the same love, the same treasures of camp and family and our rights, those things are so special as an American. And I don’t think it’s talked about enough in a way that’s in-your-face boldness for people to realize that it’s special. We need to own it. So women, I do think, are more timid. And sometimes this conversation can be a little overwhelming to them. But I want a safe space to be like, you can live who you are out loud in the hunting world because you feel that adrenaline, you feel alive. There’s something about being so alive. It’s a super cold morning, sitting on decoys. Your dog is bouncing all around. Everybody’s excited. There’s something about living that life that you take back into your mundane job or whatever your Monday through Friday looks like. And it will change the way that you see life Monday through Friday. So I’m trying to share that message. We live in a very special place that if you don’t get outside, you can’t take advantage of it. You just take it all for granted. So I don’t know about going back to women shooters or men shooters. I don’t really even know. There’s a lot of people that say women are just more coachable. Maybe they do have a more sensitive image of wanting to make sure that they do things right. Where, from a male’s perspective, a lot of times they’re having to figure out life on their own. It’s just who they are. Okay, I gotta figure this out on my own. So you go and you get some encouragement, but you still got that personality of, I’m used to figuring things out on my own. So I’ll take a little bit and then I’ll do what I think is right. I don’t know. I don’t really have those issues. I’m not really seeing it because I am fortunate enough to get a lot of people that are coming because they want to be better, because they love this life, because everybody’s giving 100%.
Ramsey Russell: What about some of the social aspects? Like yourself and my friend Austin Collins, both adult-onset hunters. Like yourself, she’s full steam ahead. She got introduced to duck hunting. Now she’s got an amazing black lab, she’s got a couple of shotguns. We have swan hunted together and hunted in Africa and around the world. And she is off on a tear. And she talked all the time about having kind of a peer group to travel with. Is that kind of what Anavi Outdoors can do, bring women together? Like steel sharpens steel, one person sharpens another. You all traveling as a pack and becoming involved and finding your own footing. Is that a part of the mission?
Anna: Oh, for sure. With Women of Wingshooting, I’ve put together course content, webinars, monthly webinars to educate women about the fear of the unknown. It really holds people back. I might not can give you mastery over a Zoom call like this, right? But I can introduce you to things to take away the intimidation, of which shotgun to use and why, or why gun fit is so important, or what ammo to use, when, and when to switch it up, and how to be prepared for the variables of your hunt based on the species you’re going after, what to wear, what works, who’s been tried and true to me as a female that I feel like I can rely on, that I would feel 100% confident in making recommendations. I’ve done that for the whole last year, and it’s been very successful. Also in hosting couples hunts, it’s been really cool to see husbands and wives come together and support each other. And then it’s really cool too, because they get involved not just with other hunting trips, but with advocacy and projects that they want to invest in or things that are important to them. So yeah, I definitely open up opportunities for women to meet other women and to travel together. But I really feel like Women of Wingshooting and the Ana V Outdoors message goes so far beyond into bleeding into every aspect of the industry besides just being in the field.
Ramsey Russell: Amen. You talk about couples trips. That’s become a huge emerging market of sorts in my world. Whether she hunts or she doesn’t, couples traveling together. We started off with a hunt down in Mazatlán, and a lot of the couples that return, especially the non-hunting wives, ask, “Well, what other trips are there like this?” And we used to have one in the Netherlands. It’s the ante to kind of put the cadence on it. But we’ve got a hunt each year down in Argentina. It’s ducks, doves, pigeons, perdiz. And there’s a lot to do because you’re not stuck out in BFE on an estancia just to go ride horses or sit by some old wintertime swimming pool. I mean, there’s a lot to do, wineries, massages, spas, shopping, and all kinds of cool stuff. We’ve got a host that takes care of it. We’re doing a trip in Scotland this year. And it’s growing leaps and bounds, especially maybe with older folks. But I say older, 40s, 50s, that just, you know, mama don’t want to stay at home. She wants to go and travel too. She wants to take this vacation and see the world. But then that’s turning into women that hunt, that want to also go on these trips.
Anna: Oh yeah, there was a couple that went with us this year, and her husband hunts all over the world. She came, and I was like, okay, we’re going to bed, we’re saying our goodnights, and I said, “I’m gonna see you in the morning, and we’re going duck hunting,” right? We were in flooded timber, and she’s like, “Oh no, I’ve never done that before.” And I said, “Well, here’s the deal. The reality of it, it’s going to be freezing cold, and you’re going to be dressed appropriately.” So we went through all the layers that she should have and a little bit of insight about being in the water. I said, “At the end of the day, you’re going to be so excited that you went. You’re gonna want to do it again. You’re gonna have tough moments, yeah, like if you were to get super wet or your hands get wet or something. This is the reality of what’s gonna happen. This is as bad as it’s gonna get. We’re in a controlled environment here, and if you were to fall in, we just pack you up in the boat and take you back to the lodge. It’s not a big deal.” And so, just having that small conversation with her, she was like, “Okay, I’ll see you in the morning.” And she shot her first duck over my dog on her first flooded timber hunt, and I was over the moon. We are friends for life. I’ve even been to their property. We went as a family and stayed with them and hunted quail on their private property. You just never know what is going to happen and the connections you’re going to make and what that’s going to lead to in making big waves in the future, because these are people that when SCI comes up with an issue or something like that, these are going to be the first people that are calling. “We need you to rally up with us.” And that’s our tribe.
Ramsey Russell: Full disclosure here, Anna, full disclosure. I do not like being cold myself. I used to think you had to be cold to kill ducks. Then I hunted places like California and Guatemala and New Mexico, around the world. You can hunt, I mean, I’ll be in Mexico for a month getting a suntan while shooting ducks. Which reminds me of something funny. I was down there a couple of years ago, and a couple of guys joined us for dinner. Everybody shows up with their wife or girlfriend. Everybody that goes to Mazatlán brings a significant other. And these two guys showed up without a lady. I said, “I thought you all were bringing your wives?” They go, “Man, we went sea duck hunting up in Maine and it was cold. We took our wives. We told them they’d enjoy it. We thought we’d introduce them to duck hunting before we come to Mexico.” I said, “Nah, you should have done that in reverse order.” They ain’t never going duck hunting again. They about froze to death. I bet it’s never even crossed their mind to be in a duck blind. It’s just like my brother. I mean, he’s only three years younger than me. I fell off into the duck hunting, and he didn’t. One time, I caught a really, really, really good deal, $50, two days all included up at Reelfoot Lake, and I invited him to join me. It was minus 11 wind chill.
Anna: I was about to say, that can be a cold place.
Ramsey Russell: He burned up a pair of goose down mittens I gave him to wear over the fire. He had on every stitch of clothes he ever owned. Not one single time in 30 years has he ever uttered the word duck hunting again. He will not. I say, “You won’t go?” He ain’t going there. He ain’t even thought about it. He was never going back.
Anna: It’s always safe. I’m always warmer duck hunting than I have been pheasant hunting. One of my first times going to Kansas, we were filming Gundog TV, so we couldn’t back out, and a blizzard came through and snowed like 4 ft. For me, that was waist high in a field. We were in CRP up to our chin. It was a nightmare. We had to film in that, and the wind’s blowing sideways. I don’t even know how they put content together. But I’m like, I would much rather be huddled up in some blind with a heater on than out here walking through the snow having to find pheasants. There was no backing out. I could have pulled the chick card, I guess, and been like, “Oh no,” but there’s no way I was gonna do that. I’m so glad that I had that story and that I overcame that. You just learn so much about your own grit and determination and who you are as an individual. But I wouldn’t say that if I saw a blizzard coming to Kansas, I’m going to be like, “Let’s go pheasant hunting. It’s good times.” I’ll be like, “Let’s pick somewhere else, and when that melts out, we’ll show up.”
Ramsey Russell: Absolutely. Anna, are you an upland bird hunter or a duck hunter? If you had to pick one, which one are you? I’ve known you to do both.
Anna: I do both. But if I had to pick right now, today, I would probably pick duck hunter.
Ramsey Russell: How did you get involved with the waterfowl hunting community?
Anna: Well, DU recruited me to come and help them locally bring ladies into the arena, just into conservation efforts. That’s a pretty easy conversation to have with women, especially when you introduce them with the dog, the love of the dog, that kind of thing. It’s a great conversation. I love that conversation. So yeah, that’s how it got started.
Ramsey Russell: Yeah. Amen. What are your thoughts about some of the etiquettes of the waterfowl hunting culture?
Anna: Okay.
Ramsey Russell: And does it differ from the sport shooting and the dog competitions and the upland birds?
Anna: I would honestly say that the clay world has higher standards of etiquette than the hunting world. Hunting world’s full of bad habits. And people get away with things way too often. Like, coming from the clay world, you would never throw a broken gun muzzle over your shoulder. You would always hold it forward in hand. Even though your gun’s broke, everybody can see there’s no shells in your gun. It’s safe. But, per se, etiquette is you would never sweep someone with your muzzle, right? And you’re always sweeping everybody if your muzzle’s tossed over your shoulder. That’s probably a big thing for me. I tell my girls all the time, I’m like, just as often as you’d say yes ma’am, no ma’am, you better have those muzzles forward. So that’s been a big thing for me, I guess, just little things like that. You can, I don’t know, like, it’s not going to make or break a situation, per se, but I do enjoy the etiquettes of it. Lodge life, you know, it’s fine.
Ramsey Russell: What are some of the most abiding rules of waterfowl hunting etiquette that you observe?
Anna: Oh my gosh. Do not knock your gun over in the duck blind. Like, how does that happen? How does that happen? People just don’t even pay attention. They’re just kicking their guns over. You want to lose friends real fast?
Ramsey Russell: Yeah. Firearm safety.
Anna: There’s no amount of snacks in a bag that’s gonna make that go away. I’ve noticed that, it’s like, talking about the whole female thing, I didn’t know, but there’ve been several hunts that I’ve gone on, being invited to come in, right? Me being an outsider, maybe not sharing a duck blind with others, and afterwards them saying, we really appreciate your gun safety. And I’m like, well, of course. As a female, I would call out a man if I felt unsafe.
Ramsey Russell: Yeah.
Anna: This happened to me, actually, with my dog. I mean, Char Dog to you is just like Littles to me. They are our kids, right?
Ramsey Russell: Yeah, family
Anna: Life is not the same without them. I was working at a lodge that I’d partnered with on a tower shoot, and the pheasants were flying over. So if they missed, they’d fly over, and the guys were turning around shooting backwards. Well, that was just kind of like a coin toss. Probably wasn’t made clear in the rules if you could shoot behind you, in the opposite direction from the tower. But the problem is there was a creek back there. So these pheasants were flying down and hitting the water, right? So instead of them keeping their muzzle at a .45 or skyline higher, they were shooting towards the ground. And because they were shooting behind themselves, they threw out all the rules. Well, you get our retriever dogs, well, if a bird gets close to the ground, they’re going to catch it, right, and bring it back. My dog’s trained to do that because of our game. And these guys weren’t paying attention to where the dogs were at all and pointed the gun right at my dog. I literally screamed bloody murder and lost it. I was up in that guy’s face so fast. It’s like you just picked on my kid. He could have pulled the trigger any second. Luckily, he even heard me and was distracted. But it’s so easy for shooters that don’t have dogs to zero in on the target and not be aware of the surroundings.
Ramsey Russell: Oh yeah. I just even wonder about, I’m sorry, everybody’s got their own situation, but I wonder about people that don’t have a duck dog. I really do. It’s like, if you want me to run my dog, and I want to run my dog, I do not like letting cripples swim across to the other bank and assuming they’re going to be there two hours later. I think that all the birds need to be recovered at the volley. But the thing about it is, to do that, you can’t volley at the next birds coming in while my dog’s out there retrieving. She, if she’s marked three down, she’s going to go pick up one, two, three birds. And if you volley at something else, never mind the safety of it all, you’re shooting 30 meters high and she’s on the water, well, if you hit the ducks, all games are off. Now you’ve just thrown a stick in her spokes on quick, quick recovery. You know what I’m saying? Because she’s trained, she’s going to go after the last mark. So here she is, coming back with bird number two, you drop three more. She’s fixing to abandon her initial mission. It’s just a messed-up deal. I just don’t like it. It goes back to one of them etiquettes, you know what I’m saying? But that’s just part of it, How the game is played.
Anna: Other than conservation, etiquette is my favorite because there’s nothing more respectful than to have these high standards in the field no matter where you are. Tater just got to, she’s waited eight years. She’s 11 years old. She tells the story, I waited eight years to get to shoot over my dog. She got her dog when she was three years old, and there was a low quail. It was the first day that I let her out there. I said, you’re taking full responsibility of your dog today. Up until now, I have protected your dog. You’ve either run your dog or you’ve shot, but today you’re doing it all. There’s no way to really convey that type of responsibility to an 11-year-old, except to build in the respect for years to come and then hope and pray that it sticks when that time comes. We were quail hunting, and Dolly had gone on point. This bird had flown right into the strip, and man, Tater had a clear shot. The bird was about a foot and a half over her dog’s head. There are people that would take that shot, but that kid never pulled the trigger. She followed that bird. Right when it flew over her dog’s head, she pulled her gun up. I could have just sat on the ground and cried. I was so proud of her, that she was respectful enough, that she held restraint, and that she processed that much information in such a short amount of time. So many people don’t do it. They just take the chance. Somebody said, man, you didn’t shoot that bird that was right in front of you. She was like, way too close to my dog. I was so glad, because that dog slept with her for how many years? It’s her best friend.
Ramsey Russell: Yeah. Anna, do you have any thoughts on public land versus private hunting? I know you’ve done both.
Anna: You really want it.
Ramsey Russell: Yeah, I really want it. Almost a real truth.
Anna: I think that the political controversies that happen between public land and private land.
Ramsey Russell: Such as? Such as what? Give me an example of that.
Anna: I think that coming from the upland community, it’s all about public land. If you’re not really hunting unless you’re hunting public land. They can have a pretty nasty attitude towards private land hunters, where my whole attitude is the private land hunters are the ones that are the main givers for public land.
Ramsey Russell: How you figure that?
Anna: Well, the landowners are the ones with the deep pockets writing those big conservation checks. If you want to witness it, just come up to SCI Convention next year, when people literally are paying, like we’ve seen, well, a million dollars was raised in Midland the Saturday night before convention started in Midland, Texas. Alaska won the chapter award because of big fat checks that are written masse. Millions of dollars. We had two guys one night that you missed personally, it was during the live auction for a bear hunt. Two different people matched it, $400,000 for this hunt.
Ramsey Russell: Wow. I heard about a $1.2 million sheep hunt going too. $1.2 million sheep hunt. That’s a hunt, not a sheep. That’s a guaranteed hunt, not a guaranteed sheep. Wow. $1.2 million.
Anna: Having these hunts on their private land. But to say that these people aren’t private landowners hunting their own land and providing opportunity for other people to hunt their private land, I just think this controversy needs to be [**:01:16:02].
Ramsey Russell: I grew up public land duck hunting. I hunt a lot of private, a lot of public now, and still hunt a lot of public. But I do hear and see on social media people criticizing, “Well, he’s shooting that on a private duck club.” I hear that all the time. I’m like, wait a minute. It’s all within the same landscape. Ducks have wings and they fly. Besides all that, 72% of waterfowl habitat in the United States, expressed in kilocalories, is on private land. So the ducks in your area, whether you hunt public or private, are benefactors of private land. One can’t exist without the other. We’ve got to have it all. I’ve never really understood that sentiment.
Anna: Well, I come from a different perspective too. The story that I’m putting together right now with Devotions for Dad on my podcast, a lot of people don’t know that, January 1, 1984, my dad was sitting in a deer stand and he got shot in the head with a .30-06 right here. It was public land. So for a long time, I didn’t want to not hunt. I wanted us to hunt, but we always hunted on private land because we had more security of who we were hunting with. Accidents happen all the time, but for us, it didn’t turn us against hunting. It just upped our standards of how we hunt. And my level of etiquette. So there’s a backstory. I didn’t come in here just wanting to be a snob. I’m fortunate to still have my dad and to have the legacy, this hunting legacy that we have, because we have experienced the consequences of people not being responsible.
Ramsey Russell: Yeah. Are you a daddy’s girl?
Anna: Probably. I would say so. I have the best four parents in the world. I adore my stepparents so much. They’re a huge part of my life. But yeah, I’m extremely close to my dad and my stepdad.
Ramsey Russell: Yeah, I can see that. You and I were talking a little bit about plantation hunting. Tell me a little bit about, when I think of Georgia, I think of a lot of plantation hunting for quail especially. But some guys were showing me videos at convention of plantation hunting for ducks. What are some of the real truths around plantation hunting in Georgia?
Anna: Well, there are plantation duck hunting places. I’m still kind of on the fence about that world. But for the quail hunting aspect of it, and us not having really opportunities for that, I’ll tell you, my experience for plantation quail hunting has been amazing. When I first got started, it was great to say, okay, you don’t even need anything. If you’re interested in going bird hunting, you can go to the plantation. You don’t need a gun. You’ll get a guide. You’ll have somebody there to hold your hand and talk you through the whole thing. If that sparks within you and you want to go all out, I love grouse hunting. That would be public land. Grouse hunting in the Northwoods is one of my all-time favorite things to do ever. I love it, and it is so hard. But I’ve had the most fun in the grouse woods in the Northwoods of Wisconsin. You can travel all over the country. You can go chukar hunting in the mountains in Nevada, grouse hunting across the Midwest. I’ve done that for sharptails. It’s all there. But it’s hard. You circle back around later in life, and you don’t want to give it up. But you don’t like those 16, 18, 20-plus hour drives and searching for the birds and the 10-mile walking days, all that stuff. You can circle right back around to these plantations. There’s one close to here, and this group of men were so awesome. Every Saturday, they take their dogs out so their dogs would get time in the field. They’d go shoot their quail, they’d break out their Coleman stoves, and they would literally fry quail on the tailgate. So all the hunters that came through could join their tailgate. It was right there in the yard of the lodge, and it was so much fun. My kid, the youngest one, would take her friends and say, I want to take my friends hunting. It was so cool because they had this adopted family at the lodge that just took them in and gave them an extra experience for the day. That’s just a great story for the quail hunting. The duck hunting has a lot of controversy around it, with the bird flu and all these things. I just haven’t really dove in enough to do the research to say whether it’s harmful or helpful.
Ramsey Russell: I’ve got mixed feelings about game farm ducks and duck hunting too. I’ve done both. And you talk about the bird flu. That is a game farm, poultry-type environment. The wild birds carry it, but the game farms seem to be successful. We’ve had several discussions on this podcast about the influence of game farm genetics on the survivability of mallards, on the migration patterns, a lot of different aspects. As somebody that wants to shoot wild ducks in wild places, there’s just something about putting your hands on a wild bird that has not been touched by anybody or anything but the hand of God until your dog brings it up, that just appeals to me. But at the same time, I had a discussion with some folks out of South Carolina that really showed me the other side. We’re at a time and place in history that we need more hunters, more hunting involvement, more hunting dollars, more conservation dollars, more wetlands conservation. We can’t do it with fewer people. We need more to remain politically relevant. In the absence of ducks, migratory mallards in a lot of parts of the United States, the Carolinas, Georgia, places like that, there are people doing these game farms so that people can go out and hunt them. The conversation I had out in South Carolina was about the amount of habitat that some of these clubs are committing to the resource, benefiting some of the bird species that are still migrating, the wood ducks, the black jacks, gadwalls, and they’re turning out plenty of mallards too. It really framed that alternative perspective. I can accept it. Would I rather see more hunters on the landscape even though they’re shooting put-and-take bobwhites, put-and-take ducks? Would I rather see them just quit and start to bowl or play golf and not commit to conservation? Or can I just get my mind around the fact that that’s their idea of duck hunting? I can accept that. Do I agree with it, maybe not, but I can accept it. I hope to do a deep dive more into that culture in the future and just get my mind wrapped around it. It’s a different world we live in. I was in the UK recently, and a game manager pointed out that for thousands of years now, the entire United Kingdom has been conquered. There is no wild landscape until you get out to the foreshore, that little marsh area between the land proper and the ocean. It’s all been civilized, and yet they still hunt. They put out game farm ducks. I’ve shot plenty of them, but they still have wild birds too. Here in the United States, I feel like we’re still a ways away from that environmental situation, but increasingly, I feel like we’re rapidly approaching it. Unless we accept some of these wilderness areas and national parks and refuges that have been set aside throughout the United States, we are drastically changing our landscape at an unprecedented pace, the conversion of wetlands to farmland, of grasslands to farmland or shopping centers or parking lots, drainage. It’s unbelievable, how the North American landscape is changing. Now I rhetorically ask myself, if I were going to be around in 20 or 30 or 40 or 50 years, do I quit or do I accept it and embrace it. That’s just something I’m getting my mind wrapped around.
Anna: It especially in the duck world. The quail really don’t change that much. The way that they act, they may fly a little slower or not as far, kind of thing. But the ducks, they don’t decoy that well. There’s no real need for calling at these duck plantations when they’re coming through. At times, I’ve just seen, there’s that connection that drew me in, communicating with that bird to the point that it trusted you to come down. That takes so much skill.
Ramsey Russell: Yeah. That sales pitch and that interaction, that’s very intriguing to me.
Anna: That’s the whole part that sold me on the duck world, watching the callers control how these birds were going to come in. That blew my mind because I’ve always just ran off the dog. To add that element and the dog into it, watch the dog, watch the ducks, and depend on you and all that stuff, is the reason why I can’t sell out to it. It takes that one thing that made it so special to me away.
Ramsey Russell: Anna, we’re gonna wrap up with a few more questions, but how has hunting changed your life? How has hunting upland birds, being around shotguns, duck hunting. How has it changed your life? Who is Anna V now versus the woman she was in her 20s that did not hunt?
Anna: Well, I did hunt, but I wasn’t hunting like I am now. I would say the investment of my time has changed so much that we don’t even like leaving town if we don’t take our dogs. That sounds so foreign to some people, but the reward and the relationships, the memories that we build around the hunting community, it’s not always a hunt. We can’t do it on our own. The goals of our life, to leave the world better than we found it, you can’t do that all by yourself. So it’s just that reward of spending the time with those people in the same mind-set. It’s better than any vacation or any other way of spending my life. I literally don’t think that I could ever go to a 9 to 5 job sitting in an office. I could never do that again.
Ramsey Russell: What about your daughter? You’ve introduced her to hunting. What do you hope that hunting will bring to your children?
Anna: My oldest daughter was a DU fanatic. She won the collegiate award twice in college. She’s done all third term every year that she could go. She was the first female to be chair of UGA, like the DU at UGA. She was on the NYLC, which is the youth leadership program for PFQF when she was in high school. Sucked her right into politics. She’s actually, first year out of college, a policy advisor for Governor Kemp here in the state of Georgia. She works at the Capitol. She missed SCI this year. She’s always there raising money for the foundation, but we were in session. So my kids have literally found their own purpose within this world because of the people that they’ve been influenced by. J.C., J.C. mam we call her, she’s kind of all biz. She likes the biz part of what we do. And Tater Bug is like the hardcore killer. Tater Bug wants to be with a gun and her dog anywhere. She’s already talking about, maybe I just go back to home-school.
Ramsey Russell: Yeah.
Anna: Yeah. So I don’t know. We just present it to them and say, this is what’s so precious to us. This is the thing that’s held us together. This is the thing that we share. I’ll tell you, watching your family’s stories through Christmas made me so jealous. I was like, we’ve got to change our holiday plans because we ran ragged just hopping around to everybody’s holidays. These times are so precious with our kids. Just to see your family at camp with your traditional hunts and all that stuff, it was like, yeah, if we don’t make a change for our kids that may not ever happen for us. But at some point in your family, somebody said, this is important to us. This is the legacy that we want to live, and this is how we want our kids to remember their childhood.
Ramsey Russell: We spend Thanksgiving at camp. We do, and we’ve done that for a long time. I was talking to my kids this year, and as far back as anybody can remember, and I don’t remember when we started that, it started out with me and my buddy Mr. Ian going to camp because duck season in Mississippi is the day after Thanksgiving, and deer season’s ongoing, so why not go to camp? We cook, we eat, we drink, and we’re merry. Why not bring the families? Then it just kind of grew into something where now there’s a half-dozen families. So we do a massive potluck now. Christmas morning, Christmas Eve, we’re sitting here at the house, everybody making rounds. As the kids get older and start dating, their schedules get thin. But on Christmas morning, for as long as I can remember since grade school, Forrest and I, sometimes Duncan, we go to duck camp. We break out the old granddaddy shotguns, the old shotguns, and we go to duck camp. We drive over in the mornings and we hunt ducks, win, lose, or draw. We’re back in time to eat breakfast and open presents. I wouldn’t have it any other way.
Anna: We used to spend Thanksgiving at our deer camp when I was little. Then life just happened. One year it just didn’t happen because of some reason, and then everybody just kind of fell apart. We were talking about this year and decided, okay, we’re just going to have to put our foot down and be like, this is how we want to spend our family. This is what we want to do. It might be awkward in the beginning to change tradition, but if we’re not the ones to change tradition, then it’s never going to happen. I think that you inspired us. Next year we’re going to go to South Georgia and take over our friend’s quail camp and spend Thanksgiving at camp and start a new tradition. So thank you so much for sharing not just your vast expertise, wisdom, and knowledge of the field, but your family traditions, because it does make an impact.
Ramsey Russell: Thank you. Annav, how can everybody connect with you?
Anna: Best way is annavoutdoors.com because social media is not very fond of me. I got hacked and deleted. I don’t use Instagram very much.
Ramsey Russell: You’re on your second account at Instagram, aren’t you?
Anna: Yeah, and it’s not going anywhere. So I would say annavoutdoors.com. Email me there. That’s the best way to stay in touch.
Ramsey Russell: I wish to live in a pre-Instagram, pre-Facebook world again. Between Australia, anti-hunters, and the fact that so much of my lifestyle revolves around guns and animals, I’m still clinging to my guns and God, my religion. Because my wall is feet up, I am in a shadow ban from the word go. Instagram can kiss my butt. Those blue-haired little nose-ring fairies that wrote those algorithms, they do not like what I do. They do not like what anybody listening does. They are against us and absolutely determined to throw us into oblivion. It’s just to the Stone Age, and I resent them. I have appealed. Matter of fact, when they flag the photos now, which is to say every single photo that exists on Ramsey Ross, forget Duck’s Instagram, there’s not even an option to appeal it. They’ve mooted the appeal button. But you know how that’s going to change what I do? Not one dang bit. I’m gonna keep on doing it either.
Anna: Me either. Because I’m not here for the likes and stuff. I’m here for the real relationships. You and I both know that when people go on hunting trips with us, those are friends for life. Social media can’t make that any better, and it sure as heck can’t take it away.
Ramsey Russell: Right. You’re right. Anna V, I greatly appreciate you coming on board. I wish you the best with Anna V Outdoors and recruiting and educating women, helping them find their footing in the great outdoors. As a hunter or a non-hunter, either one, I applaud your effort and wish you the very best of luck.
Anna: Thank you so much, and I hope to share the field with you soon.
Ramsey Russell: Folks, thank you all for letting this episode of Mojo Duck Season Somewhere Podcast. We’ll see you next time.
