Hunters United – Ramsey Russell from GetDucks.com

Darren Linton: You’re listening to the Field & Game Australia podcast brought to you by Winchester Australia. It’s a very warm welcome to the podcast and a very special episode today. You will have seen – if you remember of Field & Game Australia that we’ve launched Hunters United around the world in the last couple of weeks with this pandemic sweeping the world. We wanted to reach out to other organizations, let them know that everybody’s in the same boat, we’re all hunters together, everybody’s facing the same difficulties of confinement and not being able to do the things we love to do and we’re thinking of other people. And we want to expand a little bit on that theme today, so we’ve brought together a little cast of people. First of all, Dean O’Hara, who’s the CEO of Field & Game Australia, Dean, welcome?

Dean O’Hara: Hey, Darren. How are you?

Darren Linton: Very well. In your view, what do you think this little side project is about?

“I think, the side project is an interesting one, it’s trying to get people to like mine, hunters across the world are not going to be out in the bush or in the wild, be it a harvest or go around hunting activities for potentially the foreseeable future. So as a worldwide community, what can we do in the meantime to keep our interests up and that’s where the Hunters United when the world comes into about sharing stories, sharing similar topics and all adventures or things like this podcasts or videos of us out there hunting maybe in Australia, the United States or the United Kingdom.”

Dean O’Hara: I think, the side project is an interesting one, it’s trying to get people to like mine, hunters across the world are not going to be out in the bush or in the wild, be it a harvest or go around hunting activities for potentially the foreseeable future. So as a worldwide community, what can we do in the meantime to keep our interests up and that’s where the Hunters United when the world comes into about sharing stories, sharing similar topics and all adventures or things like this podcasts or videos of us out there hunting maybe in Australia, the United States or the United Kingdom. So, it’s very important to try and link that hunting community, the global community together and have a conversation around what hunting means us as individuals and as individual countries as well.

Darren Linton: And welcome to Glenn Falla, Board member of Field & Game. Glenn, you also done a little bit as an outfitter and you’ve also traveled as a client of outfitters around the world, when all this is over and Australians are great travelers and adventurous ones at that, the world will be a very different place, but there will be a need for people to get out there and do things again.

Glenn Falla: They most certainly will. And yeah, absolutely, that’s how Ramsey and I originally met and that’s what eventually led to what I’m currently doing. So, I’m sure that we’ll be talking in coming weeks or months as to what plans we’re going to put it down and where we’re going to head in the world, where we can head, that’s the unknown question at the moment.

Darren Linton: And on that note, we’ll welcome Ramsey Russell from getducks.com. Ramsey’s motto is there’s a Duck Season Somewhere and there are duck seasons in a lot of places at the moment. Ramsey, but we can’t participate in them unfortunately.

“No. Darren, we can’t get there right now and that’s a real stick in the spokes. But boy, the program you all got going on right now uniting global organizations in a common cause, what a great time to launch it because all of humanity is in a common cause right now.”

Ramsey Russell: No. Darren, we can’t get there right now and that’s a real stick in the spokes. First, avid duck hunters, I got back from Azerbaijan in late February, I’m going to get a 2 month break, longest break in 4 years and now I’m just stuck at home. But I’m like a free bird in a cage. It’s like, I was so glad to be home but now I want to get back out in the world and then see my friends and see my clients and get off in a duck blind and do this thing we all love to do and it’s so frustrating. But boy, the program you all got going on right now uniting global organizations in a common cause, what a great time to launch it because all of humanity is in a common cause right now. And we’re all indelibly linked whether we hunt or we don’t, we all love these ducks but as humans, we’re all in the same life raft right now, so to speak.

Darren Linton: And I know we’ve spoken about this before, particularly when you’re in Australia, that one of the things you find traveling around the world is give yourself 15-20 minutes in a duck blind with someone doesn’t matter where they’re from, what language they speak, we’re all the same.

Ramsey Russell: That is the truth. All of us duck hunters speak a universal language. Speaking of Azerbaijan, we were hunting 8-10 miles from Iran. Unbelievable hunting. It’s like stepping back to a former century, just very old school and traditional and very fundamental skill oriented duck hunting. And we actually left dinner that night as we were leaving, the headline read that Iran had sealed off coming and going because of coronavirus. I mean, we’ve been through a H1N1 and bird flu and all these other pandemic things the past decade, so you shrug it off and then you get home and a week later, wow, it’s really starting to hit home. But the last morning we go out in this massive marsh and we get off of these little bitty p-rows, you sit down just right, don’t move too far the left or right, your guide stands in the back and push polls for half hour out in this beautiful marsh and as we’re leaving the ramp, there’s several of his clients all there together and I respect it, little boats and one of them said to me, man, this has been an amazing hunt, amazing time, I just wish this guy could understand English. I says, well, he’s Azerbaijani. You know, he don’t speak English and he goes, yeah, but it’s been so frustrating duck hunting with him, I go, he’s a duck hunter. He doesn’t have to speak the same written word, he’s a duck hunter. And he said, what do you mean? I says, just hand signal, he’ll get it, just lead and he’ll follow. And that’s the absolute truth. He came back – that’s all he talked about at lunch is, man, you’re right. 2 people from 10,000 miles apart, speaking foreign languages in a foreign land and it’s the same process and we all get it. That’s one thing – I don’t care, race, color, religion, it doesn’t matter, we’re all just duck hunters. And that’s a very rewarding thing about what we do.

Darren Linton: And Dean like everywhere else Australia has got its challenges and I think what surprised a lot of people is the rapid pace of change. And then ultimately to the point where it’s stay home, don’t go out unless it’s for a very small number of reasons. And that really limits what people can do, it’s a frustrating time for everyone.

Dean O’Hara: As talking to Field & Game members over the last few weeks, you can hear in their voices and tell in their behaviors that everyone’s frustrated by these restrictions. I think the majority of our members understand why they’re there and respect them at the same time, it’s a real tough time and quail season only opened last weekend. And we’ve got Victorian duck season a couple of weeks’ time and that unknown about whether we will have the ability to get out there is that additional frustration. That’s really hitting home – today and they’re just saying, well, what do you think is going to happen? And the answer is, we just don’t know. And I think the whole world in that position, that’s why trying to get night hunters and Ramsey’s point about the Azerbaijani, why don’t we connect in that way we’re all duck hunters or hunters with all that same kind of that knowledge that respect, that desire, that drive, which I think suppresses and surpasses all language boundaries and you can just go out there in a blind have fun. But we’re also advocating the fact that there’s a real other social benefit to going out there with your friends and there’s some real mental health stuff there that supports people going out there into regional marsh areas and they can have a good few days with their friends and maybe release some of that mental health stress at the moment, that ability is not there. That’s a real concern for me that we’re not going to have that opportunity with mental health being a real issue certainly in Australia and I’d be interested in Ramsey’s view from a US perspective, but it’s just a real tough time for everyone. Everyone’s stressed about work and life and now not being able to get out there and hunt, I’m really concerned that it’s going to just push stress levels out of the limits.

Darren Linton: Ramsey, are you feeling much the same thing?

“I think, initially I was and how do you get home and life sticks this massive 2 x 4 in the spokes and things just grind. But then the last few days, especially for me, okay, I can’t go duck hunting but what can I do? And I’ve got some real clean guns right now, I’ve got a real clean hunting closet, I’ve gone through the details and there’s a lot of things that I’ve probably neglected to do that we don’t get around to like cleaning out the truck during hunting season that I’ve gotten around to.”

Ramsey Russell: I think, initially I was and how do you get home and life sticks this massive 2 x 4 in the spokes and things just grind. I remember this story I told us on another podcast the other day, my brother and I were in high school doing typical dumb high school stuff, my daddy had a ford pinto at the time, we were sent to the store to get cigarettes that dates us a long time and the kids that didn’t have a driver’s license to go buy a pack of smokes for their old man at the store. And we’re driving down this country road doing 50-60 miles an hour, my brother who’s left handed anyway, sitting in the passenger side just reaches down and grabs the park and break that sat between the two seats, we came to a screeching halt, I had a steering wheel to hang on to, he didn’t. And just dumb stuff kids do, but that’s how life just came to an abrupt halt as we know it. You all have got duck season the greatest time of year opening up, its ducks season somewhere for me, I’m moving, got clients flowing in and out, but the first week it was just like this suspension, watching these people on TV talk about the unknown because nobody knows what’s going to happen with these curves and everything else. But then the last few days, especially for me, okay, I can’t go duck hunting but what can I do? And I’ve got some real clean guns right now, I’ve got a real clean hunting closet, I’ve gone through the details and there’s a lot of things that I’ve probably neglected to do that we don’t get around to like cleaning out the truck during hunting season that I’ve gotten around to. And moving forward with this concept of kind of a global partnership that Field & Game Australia does, hey, if I can participate on a podcast, if I can arrange a meeting, if I can contribute to the greater good of my fellow hunters and waterfowl, that’s something productive I can do instead of watching these idiots on television right now trying to scare me, we’ve got to keep moving because you know what I know and what we all know is tomorrow’s going to come, we may not go duck hunting this year in Australia and you know what if this thing lags on, there may not be a duck season, this fall in the United States, but there will be another duck day. So, what can I do to make it better for that time and that’s kind of approach I’m taking. We duck hunters, I feel like are universal optimist. In a drought year, like a drought year, a short season, a short bag limit, like Australia’s facing, it’s not going to stop a duck hunter from going out and hunting, right? We got that good attitude, we’re going to go out and make the best of what opportunities were given and instead of just sitting around and moping and licking my wounds, I think I’m going to do my best to build a better service, improve my business, improve my website, improve the habitat at my camp and do whatever I can do for tomorrow, that’s all we can do.

Darren Linton: And by organizations working together, I guess the opportunity – we face sometimes slightly different issues, sometimes just in a slightly different context, but generally what hunter’s face across the world is the same. So, why shouldn’t we all work together to help each other?

Ramsey Russell: I agree. It’s crazy to me, the world is so much bigger than our backyard. And even if our backyards, the whole continent of Australia, the world is so much bigger, even if the whole United States, plus Canada, plus Mexico the world is so much bigger. You know, a lot of these birds, especially in the Northern hemisphere they’re found they’re whole arctic, they’re found throughout the whole northern hemisphere and I say Glenn and I were talking the other day on a recording podcast Duck Season Somewhere but we were talking the other day about, if you start contrasting Australia duck hunters and Australian duck hunting and Australian species as opposed to America, there’s far more similarities than differences and we really are in this together. I mean, wildlife conservation is wildlife conservation, one country’s failings is another country’s failings because we’re truly in this thing together. If that makes any sense, I really think that on a united front that a lot of the – whether it’s climate change or land use patterns or politics or something, we’ve all got kind of the same common goal, we’ve got the same common impediments or the same impediments in common that strategically we could work together to make the world a better place. And I know that sounds real idealistic, but I don’t think it is.

Darren Linton: And Dean from your perspective opening up a little to the world and trying to engage more is a really – I guess a very practical and very good use of time, which we all seem to have so much of at the moment.

Ramsey Russell: It is a good use of time. It’s a noble use of time.

Dean O’Hara: I think alongside that, it’s about building those relationships as well. It’s an opportunity to build some relationships with people all around the world. They’ve got the same common purpose and viewpoint as we do, but it also gives us an opportunity to showcase what we’ve got here in Australia to Ramsey’s point, tomorrow will come, there will be another duck season in the day. So what can we do to try and encourage duck hunters to come to Australia and then vice versa, encourage Australians to try hunting in other parts of the world. I think it’s a really important time that we can utilize our knowledge and experience and share those learnings with other people around the world and again, learn from their shared knowledge and learning. While we haven’t got the option to get out in the bush, we’re out in swamp, we have got other opportunities. And again Ramsey said, guns have never been as clean as have been in the last few weeks, I’m sure they’ll be clean and going forward because people still have to get there and do that kind of work. But what else can we be doing? And that’s where the hunters unite kind of genesis come from is about, well, if we’re doing this, what are other people around the world doing and what can we have a big conversation around another ethics and sustainability about hunting. What are we going to do it? Let’s try and myth bust some of those thoughts that there are people who don’t understand, what else could we be doing to share our experiences and knowledge with like-minded people around the world and use opportunities as a learning opportunity rather than just sitting back and relaxing. I think again, we are very optimistic as hunters. We always want to be out there, always going to be enthusiasm to do the next thing. So again, what else can we be doing to keep that passion going and keep the conversation happening.

Darren Linton: All right, we’ll be back in just a moment. We’ll talk about a happy anniversary for Dean and a little bit about Ramsey’s experiences in Australia.

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Darren Linton: All right there’s a welcome back. Glenn, nice contribution. You’re calling is improving, it’s going beautifully.

Glenn Falla: I’ve been practicing all this time honestly.

Darren Linton: Ramsey will be proud. Dean, happy anniversary to you. One year in the job as CEO of Field & Game Australia and I suffice to say you really picked a good year, didn’t you?

Dean O’Hara: Thanks. It’s been a big year and I’m in the process of doing some reflecting on that year and what we’ve achieved and what there is left to be done. But I think the overwhelming impression for me is the passion of our membership, passionate hunters and living in their shoes to some extent every day has certainly opened my eyes tremendously. But it’s been a really interesting year, I think we’ve achieved a great deal. There’s a lot more to work on, but I’m really looking forward to the challenge ahead.

Darren Linton: And the shutdown’s the shutdown or the lockdown or whatever you want to call it, but it won’t last forever. It might last for a lot longer than we hope. But things will get going again and clay target events, the opportunity to hunt, putting the case for hunting, there’s lots of things that can continue while we’re locked down, but we do look forward to getting out there again.

Darren Linton: Yeah, absolutely. And the glass being half full rather than half empty comes to mind there. We’re still doing a lot of work and keeping hunters front in center of the political spectrum in all parts of Australia by state territory and federal levels as that work continues as well as talking to other agencies and departments to try again strengthen hunter appreciation. And we’re also doing some more work. When this lock down really happened, my view was that let’s look at this as an opportunity to really do some of that work that we haven’t had the chance to do. And that’s really where Hunters United come from about really having the opportunity to engage with our members and actually give them something a bit different while they are in this restricted lockdown state. But also to say that as you said Darren, it’s not here forever, let’s get ready for the future. And what does that look like because at the moment that the opportunity to really work on that.

Darren Linton: And Ramsey, what’s it like sitting in your bunker there and not being able to travel. I mean, you’re really home normally.

Ramsey Russell: It’s different and I needed a couple of months off. I think that between 1^st September 2019 and February 24^th, I might have slept in my own bed 10 or 11, 12 nights and my dad used to always say home is where your hat hangs, it sure does feel good to crawl in your own bed and eat at your own dinner table some. Speaking of opportunities, speaking of downtime isn’t it crazy how life is so dominated by time and money, we spend so much of our time working and working besides just duck hunting, we neglect a lot of things. I mean, just sitting down with your kids, seeing your kids, going shopping, reading a book, just the simple things and really and truly I’ve kind of – what I don’t like is that I can’t leave, that’s what I don’t like. I’m okay being here, I just don’t like the idea that I can’t leave if I want to –

Darren Linton: And it’s time Ramsey to fess up on the book. Come on, fess up on the reading.

Ramsey Russell: I’ve been doing some reading and not just picture looking, like normal. I’ve really been reading the words and trying to think about it this time, but seriously, it’s very strange, but I’m looking at it from the glass half full and looking at it from an opportunity to sort things out and plan for the future. We’re going to be here and tomorrow, where we’re going to be what the new normal is going to be is anybody’s guess but I’m going to be here and I’m going to be ready to come down to Australia and shoot some more ducks next time, the opportunity presents itself. I’m going to be ready to hit the road, I’m going to be ready – I was supposed to go to Argentina through June, go to Peru in July, go to South Africa in August and then hit the road in North America when I got back home, like we do and now it’s just all kind of suspended, but it’ll get here soon enough and what can I do to make it better, what can I do to spend more time with my kids? My kids are heck, they’re home and they’re grown kids and they’re home, that’s really fun. There’s not a bunch of homeschooling to do or nothing, it’s good visiting and catching up and my wife and daughter building a puzzle. I’m reading books and meeting with my son and doing things training the dogs. I mean, it’s just something to do besides sit around and mope and think the sky is falling.

Darren Linton: And what are you hearing from other organizations, other sections of the industry?

Ramsey Russell: Everybody’s bunkered down, I can tell you that. Everybody is in a holding pattern. Everybody, I’m talking to our outfitters throughout the United States, outfitters worldwide. I mean, just imagine that in – it’s one thing recreationally that our season starts in a few weeks. But what about the guys that have got 4 months – the lodges that have got 4 months of clients coming in and I’m not going to exaggerate when I say it was a record year, the economy and consumer confidence and people just having the time and the money to go and do those trips of a lifetime and it’s a little daunting for us as a business. About 2 weeks ago, we tried to get ahead of the curve and we sent out an email blast to everybody in our email list not just the client’s coming up to explain to them. Of course, we’re aware of COVID, South Africa has rescinded all visas, Argentina, Peru, New Zealand, Australia, Netherlands, the entire world is sealed tighter than a frog’s rectum right now. Ain’t nobody’s coming in and out. Planes are grounded. Ain’t nobody going nowhere. What’s that going to do? We were asked by clients that have trips coming up and 3 weeks, 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 12 weeks, what’s that going to do to our plans? What’s that going to do to our trip of a lifetime and all the money we’ve sent? And I’m like, relax. What we try to say in our email, take care of your families, take care of your business, take care of yourself, take care of your health, those hunts will be there and we’re going to be just as ready as you are to join you in a blind when it happens and we’re just going to defer it to the future, no penalties, no loss, no nothing relax. Those hunts will be there, we’re all looking forward to them. And I think it gave them a lot of peace of mind. We actually got a few texts and believe or not texts and calls thanking us or taking one less worry off their table. But we’ve got to move forward and I think it’s really going to – how can an event like this the way that countries interact, that people do business, that people travel, that people plan traveling in the future, we don’t know what that frontier is going to look like exactly. But I don’t think it’s going to be exactly like it was on New Year’s Day, this past year, it’s going to be different. But that’s just part of life, we’ve got to change, we’ve got to adapt and we’re good at it and you move forward. And so we’re just – like I say, because we’re home because we’re having to focus on different details, we’re just trying to take a proactive effect and move forward. In terms of industry and the global supply chain has put a lot of demand on parts of the world that are scary and unsavory right now. And I think a lot of people are planning their own contingencies, I think they should. Who knows Darren, who knows what we’re getting into in the future? But every everybody, I think – I really think the people I’ve talked to, I’m talking to all my outfitters, a lot of clients, a lot of industry people from around the world and throughout the US and everybody I think is trying to play through there’s – let’s just hold the fort, let’s move forward. There’s going to be a tomorrow and we’ll pick up and pick the ball up and run with it when we get the chance to.

Darren Linton: And that tomorrow, Glenn will need individuals to travel to look at that trip of a lifetime to get things moving again.

“I don’t think there’s ever been so much discussion about Australia, certainly in the United States, you can see it on social media and I’m sure that Ramsey will have an opinion on it, but I’ve never seen so much discussion around what we do, barely a day goes past that there isn’t some sort of discussion or question asked for some sort of forum that’s discussing. The real facts about what actually occurs here in Australia, there’s so many misconceptions, there’s been so many Americans in the last 5 years since Ramsey and I have worked together that are surprised that we actually are still able to own guns over here.”

Glenn Falla: Yeah, absolutely. And I think the one thing that Ramsey has done in recent years is put Australian waterfowl hunting on the map, so to speak. I don’t think there’s ever been so much discussion about Australia, certainly in the United States, you can see it on social media and I’m sure that Ramsey will have an opinion on it, but I’ve never seen so much discussion around what we do, barely a day goes past that there isn’t some sort of discussion or question asked for some sort of forum that’s discussing. The real facts about what actually occurs here in Australia, there’s so many misconceptions, there’s been so many Americans in the last 5 years since Ramsey and I have worked together that are surprised that we actually are still able to own guns over here. They thought that we weren’t able to own firearms anymore. And when they learn that’s only semi-automatics that we’ve lost and the water fowling is still so strong over here, they take a big interest very quickly. And even the species that we have over here, the geese and what have you – last time Ramsey visited, he was fortunate enough to finish his grand slam and he’s hunted every duck species that he can here in Australia. But we’re going to move on to geese next and that’s going to be great.

Darren Linton: All right, we’ll take another quick break and we’ll be back to wrap it up.

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Darren Linton: Oh, stop it.

Glenn Falla: I can’t stop it.

Darren Linton: You cannot stop him, eh? Hey, Ramsay I’ve got a question for you, have you got a dream hunt still?

Ramsey Russell: A lot of my bucket list hunts are probably closer to home, the United States is a – we’ve got a vibrant continental migration across 4 different flyways, 4 different major flyways. There are still probably – I’ve not hunted 15 of the 50 states and I’ve shot all the species types. But now, it’s just the little nuances, you know the way this region calls or hunts or techniques they use versus 2 states over in 3 states back, it’s different. The little nuances of what I really get into. And Glenn, was saying before we went to commercial break about putting attention on Australian duck hunting and to me, Australia duck hunting deserves attention. Because as an American duck hunter that travels to foreign lands where there’s absolutely nothing whatsoever familiar as the form of duck hunting, like I think of it except for ducks and water and shotguns, otherwise Australia is so familiar. The species, the pacific black duck versus the mallard, 2 totally different species that behave differently that use similar habitats, the hardhead reminds me so much of a lot of our pochard species over here. And what I love so much about Australia besides the people are the habitats because they’re just vibrant ephemeral natural God given wetlands that ducks love in wet years and it speaks to me. And I’ll say this better than any other country on earth Australia elevates the cooking of wild game to art form. It’s unbelievable. Every Australian I’ve ever met has a half dozen great recipes and even when they played them and take a picture of it, it just looks like something you’d eat in a restaurant. It’s the proper tribute to wild game and that’s what – it speaks to me so personally. And everybody that hears that story or see that little video clip we did or what we do a podcast, they just eat it up. It speaks to them also.

Darren Linton: And what was your favorite hunting? Was it the timbered country or the -?

Ramsey Russell: Everybody’s got satellite TV now talks about – I’ve been as far away as Pakistan of all places. I was in Pakistan a few years ago and listen to a dozen Pakistanis tell uncle side jokes from Duck Dynasty that was a shock. But even there they asked about flooded timber hunting, Arkansas Green Timber hunting and I was shocked when hunting with Glenn those red gum swamps were unworldly enchanting. It was just a spell binding to be standing in there on a clear day and then the ducks break through the timber and come in and work. It was extremely memorable, that was probably my favorite. But it really wasn’t until the last day that Glenn and Trent, boy did they pull one out like a magician pulling a rabbit out of hat, we showed up to this little marsh that crotch deep and loaded with submergence vegetation and nearly filled my limit entirely on drake hard heads. Now, that’s a bird, that’ll get your heartbeat. I get why they’re the big prize over there now that was a really nice treat. But everybody ask all the time, what’s my favorite duck? And I’ll tell you honestly, just very honestly it’s the next dang duck that comes into decoys, that’s my favorite duck. But now it was a – well heck Darren, the time we hunted out there on that one wetland and got into the teal. What a fun hunt that was?

Darren Linton: Yeah. And look, you don’t get those wetlands Ramsey without hunters and without conservation which is something Field & Game Australia has prided itself on for the last 60 years. Is that an area that you think organizations and hunters across the world should work more on?

“It’s a resource, it’s a renewable resource. Its harvestable sustained yield, the whole model of wildlife management was built on a civil cultural basis, sustained yield, conservation to me is not putting it in a jar, putting it up on a shelf and looking at it forever, it’s wise use. In order to keywords, smart use, use is a word, it’s an integral part of the definition of conservation.”

Ramsey Russell: Yes and I’m glad you brought that up because it’s hard to articulate sometimes even to myself, let alone to a – I’m not talking about anti hunters, you’ll never change their mind. So, let’s just push that 10% of humanity off to the side, now let’s talk to the middle ground that are neither antibiotics nor hunters. And as I imagine myself talking to them as I talk to myself sometimes, how do you articulate loving something that you go out and shoot? How do you possibly articulate that? I love it, so I go and kill it. It’s sometimes hard. But now I’ve got a formal training in forestry and wildlife and my wildlife background was in a forestry school. It’s a resource, it’s a renewable resource. Its harvestable sustained yield, the whole model of wildlife management was built on a civil cultural basis, sustained yield, conservation to me is not putting it in a jar, putting it up on a shelf and looking at it forever, it’s wise use. In order to keywords, smart use, use is a word, it’s an integral part of the definition of conservation. And you look at the modern athletic arena today, there’s a lot of great athletes out there that are paid millions because our recreational interest is willing to afford that. Now, take that over to a duck or to another wildlife resource our recreational interest the fact that we so love something, we want to go out and put our hands on it and it means killing a wild bird that we’ll eat, that we’ll use, that we’ll enjoy, that we’ll build traditions around, nonetheless the monetization, this commodity value that are recreational interest places on wildlife, not just in Australia, not just in the US but worldwide that’s the only reason that resource exists. You cannot assume that in the absence of our recreational interests and our commodity value that that resource is going to be managed for and in abundance. And that to me, that one element is why all hunters globally are in this fight together.

Darren Linton: And then, I guess on that note often when that recreational use is taken away and we’ve seen it in other areas that and things are managed just purely to exist, they don’t do as well.

Ramsey Russell: No, they can’t. I mean, give me one example of something for which there is no intrinsic or commodity value that anybody cares if it exists, that’s when species slip off into extinction because there’s no knowledge or interest or passion in it. Therefore there’s going to be no money. You know, right now, there’s a decline in hunters in the US and I was reading reports, some of the state agencies that have got multi-million dollar budgets for habitat and wildlife and recreational use, it’s not just ducks and deer and game animals, there’s entire pollinator insect budgets built around hunter dollars. Follow what I’m saying? What are anti-hunters or non-hunters, what are they specifically doing? It is like my only message, I am a non-confrontational person and I always – I told Glenn I’d love to meet these anti-hunters, not for a confrontation I’d like to just be a blank slate and creep into their minds because I know number 1, I want to find common ground, they care about ducks, I care about ducks. How are we going to manage it? How do you propose to manage that resource in the absence of hunter funding? Tell me who’s going to pay for it? And what’s the output? There’s got to be money and I’m willing to pay it.

Glenn Falla: Here in Australia we often hear those that oppose hunting that, there’s a loss of habitat or there’s not enough water in our water systems, there’s not enough of this and not enough of that. But in reality, it’s the hunters that go out there and for our members go and work on the wetlands and do weed control, they’re the ones actually putting time into putting trees in the ground, they’re the ones actually putting time into advocating or we certainly advocate for more water in our channel system or giving it away. It’s the hunters actually – it’s not just the dollar that they’re put in by way of investing into the economy, it’s the time that hunters and that’s got to value against it as well. But what really gets up my nose is when the anti’s are the first one to complain about it, but the last one to do anything about it. So, we’ve certainly heard in the run up to this duck season that those that normally would be shouting from the rooftops about hunters, they can’t shout anymore or they can’t shout as loud because we’re the ones out there doing the work, we’re the ones out there on the wetland, we’re the ones that doing the surveys, we’re the ones that are counting birds, we’re the ones that actually tracking birds, see where their flight paths are. We’re the ones actually trying to increase habitat, take it away. And you never hear from the anti’s when there’s a large industrial development going on with mine encroach on habitat, they’re more interested in hunters and how they sport to kill birds. They don’t actually understand the harvesting and as you rightly put out about that meat is used for the table and for food for people. And that’s where I get really annoyed is that they don’t understand all that, they just want to sit there and just say about – in Melbourne, they sit there with their coffees and lattes and they put the world to write as well rather than sit there with a coffee go out in the wetland and help hunters and help conservationists do that work and make a difference because that’s where it needs to happen.

Ramsey Russell: Dear Anti-hunter put your money and your time where your mouth is, that’s my message. Dear anti-hunter join me, roll up your sleeves, put your time and put your money where your mouth are and the world would be a lot better place. We started a new podcast ourselves called Duck Season Somewhere and I started recording personal conversations back when I was in Utah back in October and you’ve got this massive wetland around the Great Salt Lake millions of acres that’s still just unbelievably vibrant wetland. And back in the late 1800s, back when there were passenger pigeons and market hunting and just this whole unexploited western part of US, it was regarded by hunters worldwide as the true Valhalla of world duck hunting. They would say when flocks would get up – this historian we interviewed today for Monday’s podcast described or written accounts of so many ducks getting off the water it sounds like 6 freight trains converging at one time on the scene. Well, back in those days as it became accessible via rail lines, a lot of wealthy sports began to make land investments and buy it and manage it so that they’d have a place to go and hunt on their own. And now over a 100 years later there’s dozens and millions of acres represented by dozens of these century old hunting camps that are still managed for perfection. And it’s like as I was talking to some of these club members I met with, they’ve been digging deep in their pockets, putting private habitat going into a property that they can legally hunt for 120 days, they hunted 60 days. But it’s good for migrating birds, it’s good for nesting productivity, it’s good for non-game birds. It’s created this legacy that all of society benefits because they were willing to invest in that resource. And so 2 miles away, 5 miles away where there’s just a non-hunting public use area, those non-hunters that are walking around looking at birds and checking them off their life list, they benefit from the activity of hunters, that’s hunters as conservationists, that’s what we are. And the fact that we shoot animals, that’s just part of it. That’s who we are as people, we’re hunters. But beyond what we eat, I love to eat duck, I ate some tonight and I’m making a gumbo tomorrow. And I’ve got some ducks throwing out for us, some good old southern gumbo tomorrow’s night dinner. But beyond that, it’s the memories and it’s just there’s value beyond what that duck represents on my table. There’s value in passing on to future generations a passion for more birds in the future. One difference there’s no denying that bird watchers – here in the United States, we have a tax system called the Pittman Robertson act, Pat Whelan and its like 6 or 7% of all sporting goods, hunting related sporting good, camping, binoculars, stuff like that, firearms, bullets a tax gets set aside for wildlife conservation. So whether you’re a bird washer or a duck hunter, 7% of your sporting goods sales go into conservation. But the difference between a bird watcher and duck hunter, a bird watcher would go all the way down to Australia to check one Sulphur Crested Cockatoo off his list. If you could hunt them, I’d want them to obliterate the sun there’s so many of them and that’s the way we hunters are. I don’t want to see one duck, I want to see millions of them. I want an overabundance of them.

“And our belief is that other people can share that joy. The birdwatchers can come and have a look. You can go for a walk around the wetland, you can get some exercise, you can put a canoe on there, a kayak if you want to, so it’s not in isolation.”

Dean O’Hara: And so that’s sustainability. I think it’s a good point there and the conservation, sustainability. And I think you also touched the point there that throughout the ethics that sit behind it as well and we’re about to start a piece of work around a national wetland strategy, which is potentially going to bring the Northern Territory South Australia, Victoria and Tasmania as one group of states and territories where we’re going to map out what the wetlands are, what projects we can deliver on behalf of government or ourselves to actually increase habitat, increase the opportunity first to breed. That’s the byproduct of other things that can do. It’s going to increase fish stocks, going to increase invertebrates in the water is going to increase all this other stuff that comes in with it. And our belief is that other people can share that joy. The birdwatchers can come and have a look. You can go for a walk around the wetland, you can get some exercise, you can put a canoe on there, a kayak if you want to, so it’s not in isolation. But if the people actually doing that work are the hunters, it’s not the people on the kayaks or the bird watchers or the guys that are going to walk around the wetland, it’s actually the hunters that are investing and actually making that ecosystem works. And that’s what’s so incredibly difficult to get across sometimes, you talk about trying the message across, but we find it really hard here in Australia, trying to explain to that general population that it’s not just about the love of the birds and harvesting them for food was actually the other contributions of hunters made to that wetland activity to increase habitat, to increase water, to increase wildlife in its entirety, not just waterfowl to be harvested. We’re with you like to go to a wetland and see a million birds rather than 2 or 3 and we’re not interested in harvesting those 2 or 3 were interesting actually increasing the habitat, so there is a million birds there so hunters can go out there and be sustainable and ethical and harvest what they need.

Ramsey Russell: That’s right. We invest in principle and we draw off the interest, that’s wise use, sustained use. Whether it’s timber management or tomatoes or cotton or waterfowl or deer, it’s all about a commodity value, it’s about growing in abundance and harvesting that interest, so to speak, that the fruits that we bear. And we hunters are willing to do it, we’re passionate and we’re committed at a level that nobody else in the world, I believe truly is.

Glenn Falla: The last time we were in the States, Ramsey as we traveled around, we did 5 states in 14 days, we couldn’t possibly – you could not consume the birds that we hunted in that time because we were – you’d finish up one hunt and you’ll be on the road to the next state. And we were amazed at the fact that we could take those birds to a processor over there and we can choose to either pay somebody to clean our birds and have them prepared hand it over to us the next day to be used at the duck camp or indeed we could donate them to the locals and feed those who weren’t as fortunate as us. So, I’m really looking forward to getting you over here to Australia next time and doing a similar thing that we do up in the northern Territory where the geese that we hunt are actually handed on to the indigenous people that are no longer able to get out and hunt due to their health.

Ramsey Russell: Oh that’s a very rewarding feeling. And I’ve seen that similarly, take Mexico for example, the locals don’t have – even if it were easy for them to possess and firearms, they wouldn’t have the money to go buy ammo. They’re just simple, hardworking people, I’ve seen the same thing in Azerbaijan and in Africa and all these different places. And I remember one time coming in to a local little native village in Mexico, these little Yaqui Indians and as the airboats came up and we had ducks and brant, you would have thought Santa Claus came to town. Because the Children of the village and their moms literally swarmed the boat and they were so polite, they didn’t have their hand out, give me they were jumping on the boats trying to rope it down and lash it up or get something sorted or just be helpful in any way, so they could get those ducks and get those geese and take home. And Jake and I have filmed it. It was literally like Santa Claus had come to town. They were so excited to see that quality protein come into it to their village. And for us just to give them away. And it was humbling to me to see that, I can remember one time in a very remote reach of Paraná River in Northern Argentina, something very similar came to the boat ramp and I don’t know a dozen Children came up, but I never will forget these 3 little boys, one was pushing a bicycle, one was on the bicycle and one had his long wire and he was pulling the bicycle and they get 10m and they’d stop, they’d all swap up and they repeat and they’d swap up again as they got up to me, I realized the bike didn’t have a chain the rim on the bike had no rubber on it all, they were just putting each other on their bike and we loaded them down. We had to put the bike back the truck and carry it to their house, so they have room to carry the ducks. I mean it was heartwarming, you know what I’m saying? They were so appreciative of this resource that too many people take for granted. It’s a good food, it’s a healthy food, it’s a natural food. All the qualifiers you want to give to it but it’s a very rewarding thing to see it used and see it appreciated. To me to dismiss the quality of wild game is it’s the first world disorder. You know, I’m saying? It’s a luxury that too many people on earth don’t have.

Glenn Falla: I have similar memories of hunt in the Northern Territory in recent years where an elderly gentleman from the local indigenous group again, very polite, very thankful in a wheelchair and believe me, when he got his one goose and he got his hands on it, you’ve never seen a wheelchair go faster. He was off like a shot straight back to the bus and you weren’t getting that geese off him if you tried. He was so thankful. You would think that you’d given him gold. And it’s very rewarding.

Dean O’Hara: And that’s a good point, Glenn about the not just the hardest setback to conservation give back in kind otherwise. I mean, we’re about to start that new program down in Portland where we’re going to be taking some indigenous shoot out into the bush and helping them understand what bush craft about and what hunting’s about giving back to the community, something else that hunters do in spades across the world and sharing those stories, I think it’s really important as well for education of those people that oppose what we do. But I think it’s also that joy that you guys have just explained about in those couple of stories where to undertake an activity and give back to those actually can’t undertake it or that need food, it’s something else that we probably take for granted sometimes but it’s truly a remarkable thing.

Darren Linton: I think we’ve established –

Glenn Falla: Kids back on country.

Darren Linton: It is terrific. And I think we’ve established that hunters do a lot of good, whether it’s conservation or culturally supporting other communities, it’s good for our own mental health. It’s good in so many ways and it’s good that we’re trying to unite hunters around the world. I think, it’s a worthy cause. And thank you very much for joining us today, Ramsey. It’s been a pleasure to have you from good old Mississippi.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah, my pleasure. I’ve enjoyed it.

Darren Linton: Dean, thank you very much and Glenn, thank you very much. We’ll be back with another Field & Game Australia podcast soon. This podcast is proudly presented by Winchester Australia.

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