“Stirring What You Got” With Ramsey Russell 

Rocky Leflore: Welcome to The End of the Line podcast. I’m Rocky Leflore sitting in the Duck South Studios in Oxford, Mississippi and on the line with me this week from Life’s Short Get Ducks episode, Mr. Ramsey Russell, also here to co-host with me, Josh Webb. Guys, how are you all?

“I’m doing right on time, Rocky Leflore. If I were doing any better, I’d be knee deep in a duck hole. So, I’m doing fine, enjoying this fall weather and life’s good.”

Ramsey Russell: I’m doing right on time, Rocky Leflore. If I were doing any better, I’d be knee deep in a duck hole. So, I’m doing fine, enjoying this fall weather and life’s good.

Josh Webb: Yeah, same here. That’s something we were talking about before, it’s just this weather in the last few days and the way it looks the rest of this week, it’s just got a good feel to it. It’s got me really, really itching to be outside all I can. Because even in the peak of the day, it’s not even hot, I mean the humidity is down and it’s just so nice.

Rocky Leflore: Josh, you need to appreciate today. You’re really, really going to appreciate what – I’m sitting there for my – I have a weekly phone call with Ramsey. I’m not saying this just because you’re here but Ramsey and I have a weekly phone call, we talk for probably about an hour once a week. Outside of this podcast, I walk away from that phone call, I’m a better person, a smarter person just from listening to Ramsey. And this morning we were talking about something that you and I talk about a lot. Who is representing hunting? Who is representing hunting on social media? I guess that’s probably not the best way to open this but Ramsey, was talking about – and we’re going to talk about that here now in just a second. But one of the important things that Ramsey brought up, we couldn’t exist in that world 20 or 30 years ago because the message was almost controlled, am I saying all of that right, Ramsey? And we’re going to talk about the present in just a second.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah, it’s a personal opinion. From my perspective outside looking in Will Primo touched on it the other day, in the podcast he was talking about, it’s all about timing. As recently as when I started down the path of building getducks.com, it existed. I was outside and there was no way into the system. Now, hold this thought because we’re talking the channels of the hunting are controlled by industry. And I’ve heard it said negatively, and I’m not speaking negative energy, but I’ve heard it said well, big industry and all these products and all these people they’re using ducks as pawn and they’re doing this and that, I’m not saying that, what I’m saying is, because of merchandising, let’s call it, because that’s what I think of industry is as merchandising, because merchandising waterfowl have commodity value without which they cease to exist. And let’s just get the big particular things real quick, waterfowl merchandise in the American economy give ducks commodity value without which they cease to exist. But we’re talking about big industries and they control – they’re active in the media, the media is responsive to advertising dollars and see that kind of the whole system. As I began very humbly to the process of building my brand getducks.com Ramsey Russell as I began down that path, I read outdoor magazines forever and realized I was kind of on the outside looking in. They didn’t need Ramsey Russell to write a story, they didn’t need Ramsey Russell’s story, honestly they just did not want it or need it. And what I realized is, if you look at 20, 30, 40 years ago back in the good old days, the hay day of print media, there was a system in place, there was a network, a good old boys network –

Rocky Leflore: Very important.

Ramsey Russell: That existed and it didn’t exist at the exclusion of other, there was a lot of benefit. If you were a magazine editor and you needed content, good quality content and you needed connections to the industry, who funded the writer stories, who bought ads base and kind of drove that machine. It really behoved you to work with a proven resource, a proven writer, a proven editor, a proven somebody that you could count on to continuously generate the standard. And you really didn’t have time or inclination to work with somebody from outside the system and the way I look at it, the way I kind of conceive it is like, those musk ox, those big buffalo, those musk ox sitting up there in the arctic, when you approach them, when a hunter approaches them, when wolves approach them or outsiders at all approach them, those big males form this real tight circle like a bunch of football offensive line. They form this real tight circle around the calves and the cows and they’ve got these walls between them and outsiders ain’t getting in, wolves ain’t getting in. But now if you look at the new frontier that has happened in just the last 20 years that has evolved and is continuing to evolve, since I’ve started the process of building my business and my brand times have changed and the principal change has been the internet. Because it used to be – back when I was a little boy reading Field & Stream at the barbershop, it used to be that boom, you read Field & Stream, there might be Bill Dance and maybe one other hunting show at all on Saturday mornings to watch but outside of that the whole world of hunting was the print media that we all read when we went to barbershop.

Rocky Leflore: Let me make sure I got this right, Ramsey. 20 years ago and further you needed the buffalo is what you’re saying and today, you don’t need to buffalo as much to get your content out.

Josh Webb: That’s right.

Ramsey Russell: No, you don’t. Because the internet changed everything, man. It’s a whole new – it’s not just words and pictures that you see in this virtual reality, it has changed the whole mechanism for humanity communicating with one another. And it’s like, whereas to back formerly the way the model of communication was in the outdoor industry, formerly you paid or you earned your way up through the ranks of magazine but I believe it 30 years ago if I wanted to be a voice in the outdoor industry or in the outdoor world or in the hunting world, I had to fight my way into that buffalo herd. They had a look around and say, oh yeah, this guy’s a buffalo now, he’s one of us. But now, I don’t necessarily need that system. And even though I work very closely with some very, very good associates in the print media industry and outdoor television industry and it’s very essential for getting the message out, it’s not the only avenue of communication anymore and what I only see in my rear view mirror looking back is the fact that how Ramsey Russell was able to get his word out, his message out. Which started very humbly part time and then just a little bit of it and then a little bit more, a little bit more what was stirring what I had to communicate. And exploiting and using to my advantage to give myself a voice, this new thing at the time called the internet. And it expanded into chat rooms there – of course there was news and media and commercial sales and everything else going around on it but it was beyond that. It was chat rooms, it was blogs, now I had YouTube and I had all these different ways to get the message out and to cultivate my brand. It was a great equalizer. It’s a wonderful equalizer.

Rocky Leflore: All right. Ramsey, let me say this, this is where Josh and I spend a lot of time talking in conversation. Look, I think in this world and see both of you agree with me, there’s trailblazers, like the Ramsey Russell’s of the world, but also there’s those that try to jump into the herd per se and accept let’s say free stuff because their social metrics are better than somebody else. We got the huntress over here in her bikini, well, she’s got 900,000 followers. Does that really sale? No, I don’t think it does. And she’s promoting a cooler or whatever it may be she’s taking free stuff.

“I think, I understand it from the company’s marketing aspect of – well, if this person says or does anything with our product, 80,000 eyeballs are immediately going to be on it. And you couldn’t find that kind of marketing power 20 years ago, not without, if not unless you had existed for 20 years at that point.”

Josh Webb: I think, I understand it from the company’s marketing aspect of – well, if this person says or does anything with our product, 80,000 eyeballs are immediately going to be on it. And you couldn’t find that kind of marketing power 20 years ago, not without, if not unless you had existed for 20 years at that point. I get it from that side but what frustrates me about it is, it’s become so watered down with, it’s just so obvious that people are doing it because they want a pat on the back, they want to be told good job. And they don’t care if it’s discounted, if it’s free, they don’t care. And they’ll take 15 or 20 of them companies from anything and everything and this goes for men and women, it has nothing to do with one sex or the other. And it’s just become so watered down that it’s annoying to a point. And look to contradict it, I’d understand that a company sees it as, well, all we got to do is give this person something free 80,000 people who follow them or whatever is going to see it. If that person screws up, we’ll cut ties with them and act like we never knew them and we’re out nothing but maybe a free product or two that we sent them and that’s it.

Rocky Leflore: What a great point.

Josh Webb: But does it really move the needle? I have a hard time understanding it, understanding how it would, I heard –

Ramsey Russell: I think the understanding part comes as an economy of scale though, because you take what is essentially a mom and pop brand getducks.com by necessity, my business is a mom and pop indie type business. Now, on the one hand, we’ve been in business long enough and worked long enough and explored and just done this stuff long enough that we are experts in our field. On the other hand, to provide the level of service that we have to that our business commands of us, we have to be small so that we can be personally responsive to individual client needs. But now you apply that to selling a major product – pick a product, I mean millions of products out there, if you take that level of it, they’re corporate, they’re major, they’re talking to tens of millions of – 100 millions of dollars level of inventory being moved and it’s a whole different economies of scales, they can be a little less personal and a lot of industry is trying to move into a personal voice and everything else. The buzz word that defines a lot of these types of people we’re talking about the corporate room buzzword is mega influencer. I don’t regard myself as a mega influencer, mega influencers are the guys who talks to millions of people.

Josh Webb: No, Rocky, this just –

Rocky Leflore: But why? I’m telling you, they sit around in the corporate boardroom and laugh at us or laughing not me because I’ve had offers here. You can have some free stuff, you mentioned us on the podcast. No, you know what, I’ve got storage room buildings full of stuff, my kids can’t eat plastic decoys. If you want to be a part of this podcast, you want me to stand behind your product. You pay. You’re sitting around the world.

Ramsey Russell: No Rocky, that’s a whole different – that clouds the subject for me because I don’t want your product and I’m not going to use your product. I’m not going to use your product if it doesn’t work for me, and I don’t believe in it.

“You’ll never hear me speak of anything until I have used it to the extent of every possible way that I can use it and if I believe in it and I spend my own money on it and my own time with it and it works for me, I have no problem telling people, but what you will always hear me say is, it works for me.”

Josh Webb: That’s exactly what I was about to say Ramsey. You’ll never hear me speak of anything until I have used it to the extent of every possible way that I can use it and if I believe in it and I spend my own money on it and my own time with it and it works for me, I have no problem telling people, but what you will always hear me say is, it works for me. It may not be what you need five states over, but it works for me. And Rocky something else that we’ve talked about and that is a recurring theme on Duck South and everywhere is, the loss of respect and especially in the outdoor industry and –

Rocky Leflore: But that’s the point I was getting to.

Josh Webb: One of the things we always talk about is, where’s that disconnect? And it just kind of slapped me in the face. A minute ago, listen, you and Ramsey talk of where it is and I think now, I mean truly do think one of the main disconnects on why there’s so much less respect for hunting, for fishing, for conservation for anybody who actually knows what they’re doing, for anybody who wants to actually hand down what they’re doing to somebody who’s willing to learn, I think that disconnect comes from this what we’re talking about. There’s no respect for products. There’s no respect for what went into making that product because just like I said, a minute ago, hey look, we’re going to send you five of these, two of these, one of these and you use them and you promote them. Well, that person may do that. Well, if they go screw up and they put up a stupid picture in the company cuts ties with them, what’s that? What does that “influencer” go do? Well, then they just turn around bad mouth, the same company that was “supporting” them a month before. And so there’s no respect for it because they can just bounce around to 15 companies that have the same product but different name on it.

“I’m doing it because I spend my money on it and because I utterly believe in it from my situation. I was cleaning my – I shoot Benelli, I have for a long time that decrease recoil it’s become a part of my time and my shooting time, give me a gas operated gun and it throws off my timing for a little bit because the recoil is different, but I was cleaning my two guns the other day and I got this big old multi tray fishing tackle box, just slap full of gun stuff.”

Ramsey Russell: That to me shows loyalty to themselves, not to their product. Now see, getducks.com by distinction we’re a very organic brand. It goes back to using the internet and just building relationships and stirring what we had to tell our story and build on that story, it was just a very, very long process that wouldn’t work with shareholders. That’d be way too slow a return on their investment to work in conventional shareholder type convention but it worked for us. We told our story, we told very organically, but we followed our lead. So, it was like, what I’m trying to say is, it’s a very organic process to where now, I wore Filson and continue to do so in certain applications just because waxed cotton works very well for me in my situations and to the day I die, I will never believe that any single camo pattern works as well universally it’s just simple out of draft. That out of draft will fit into every single environment on earth that I’ve ever set foot and hunted in. Whereas some patterns fit way, way better in certain situations, but the products that I use right now, the calls that I blow, the guns that I shoot, the clothing that I wear, I’ll wear it because I’m not being sponsored, nobody’s paying me to do it. I’m doing it because I spend my money on it and because I utterly believe in it from my situation. I was cleaning my – I shoot Benelli, I have for a long time that decrease recoil it’s become a part of my time and my shooting time, give me a gas operated gun and it throws off my timing for a little bit because the recoil is different, but I was cleaning my two guns the other day and I got this big old multi tray fishing tackle box, just slap full of gun stuff. It’s all in one place and I took out my gun cleaning kit and as I’m taking those guns apart, just take them all the way down to the nuts and bolts, my whole two boxes, contrived to fit Benelli guns, so I can take that thing completely and utterly apart and fix anything on that I need to do and because I’m a Benelli believer and it’s just, I believe in Benelli, I’ve got the knowledge out of Benelli, it works. There’s way I can clean that gun out in the field and put it together. I shoot because I work it. And several years ago one of my clients said what size do you wear? And I told him and he sent me a set of coat. One of the older Dakota coats and I’m like man you look at that camo wrap up. I was like man that was my wife’s coat. I’ll tell you a funny story. I think, I was in Netherlands heading to Romania and I was 10 pounds overweight on a bag had one single bag and I was 10 pounds overweight. I said, wait a minute. What’s your baggage limitations? She goes, 50 pounds a suit. I said, how many bags am I allowed? She goes two bag. I said, well 50 plus 50 is 100 seems like you owe me 40 pounds. And that way just kind of all the work but I’m allowed 100 pounds and I’ve got 50. Why can’t I get credit for that 40 pounds I’m not using what I need to wait work. I just happen to have an extra bags. So, I pulled out my old Filson coat, I stuck at other bag popping up. Guess what? Now, I’m 10 pounds under, I just took out 20 pounds that one coat. And the way I travel so much and I’m a minimalist packer anyway, man, moving to some state of the art technology really is advantageous. And so between that and the fact that I like the way that Sitka coat fit, I like the way it worked. I like the way it functioned. I started wearing, that particular brand only because I believe in it. Trust me Ramsey, don’t walk to the mailbox and get a sponsorship cheque from nobody for nothing. But here’s the real rub on this thing. I use what I believe, but understand, going back to the brand, getducks.com. Why do people – when they can get on the internet, google anything anywhere, why do people call me? Given the choice of these 500 outfitters in the world or in the United States of America saying any given states, why do they come to US hunt list and say, I’m going to go with this outfitter that US hunt list recommends or why do they choose to come with Ramsay’s hunt in Argentina when there’s a multitude of choices? It’s because after 17 years of doing my best, to be respectable and be honorable and show some integrity and work best for my clients, people believe or trust my objectivity. They trust Ramsey for the hunt to be like they say it’s going to be. And the thing I’m in what all I considered is the day that I hold up a gun and people can say, oh, he’s shooting that gun because they’re payed him to, it’s the day I lose that objectivity, it’s the day I lose my credibility. And so I struggle with that. So, I shoot and I use what I believe works best. Have and tried lots and lots and lots of it around the world, I just shoot what I believe in and I use what I believe and I wear what I believe in because it works. And that’s the way –

Rocky Leflore: I agree with you Ramsey, that you lose that objectivity but my point to all of this and what I was trying to finish out saying was, I think that there’s a group that sit in the board room at these corporate America hunting industry and they say, oh Larry’s got great social metrics, let’s send some pre products and he can advertise online. Why is that in the hunting industry? Because I’m telling you in the car industry or whatever other retail, it maybe I guarantee you they’re not just giving away free product to get this person to advertise for them or to vouch for them.

Josh Webb: From industry standpoint, I think there’s so many companies making virtually the same thing and 75% of them don’t have the budget of the ones that have been around for 20 years. So, that’s a cheap, easy advertising avenue for them. But at the same time, it’s exactly what I just said it is, it’s cheap and it’s easy.

Ramsey Russell: Consider this right here, I had this conversation one time with a very good friend, a dear friend of mine that works for a major water fowling company and when we start talking about pro staff and ambassadors and invoices, well, even when you get beyond that Rocky, Josh, when you get beyond that pro staffer that paid ambassador association, have you noticed – we talk about this a lot in the past, especially offline, we talk about clicks the divisive energy going on in hunting, well, it’s almost and if anybody wants to prove this point, go ask the simple question of what is your favorite, fill in the blank with a product and put it on Facebook and watch the results. It’s almost like saying, what is your favorite SCC football team? And the fight starts. All the Mississippi states, all the old men, all the Florida, all the Alabama, everybody staffed up packed it, they’ve got this strong fidelity and in some way I believe that the industry at large unintentionally the industry at large is partly responsible to that increase divisiveness because in order – in a fair foot race, now, Rocky, you make product A and I make a competing product B, you make product A, I make product B and in a fair foot race, the best and best advertised wins. But now the marketing shift and you may be right, it may just be the hunting industry, but the marketing ship has grown into being built a fandom, build a fidelity, build a SCC sports cult like around this particular product and brand.

Josh Webb: That’s it. Keep it cool, as long as you can keep it cool. And as long as it’s cool, you hope people are going to be flooding to your product. Now, and then the unfortunate part of that is when whatever you have becomes a little less cool, instead of going to the drawing board and making it better or do what you have to do to climb back to the top, unfortunately, what happens, especially with social media is no, instead of doing that, we’re just going to bash the crap out of our competitors and let’s do that, let’s ride that train, let’s try to make people think –

Ramsey Russell: I don’t see, I really don’t see that. I’m going to tell you what without industry, without these businesses that are making these product and making better products, my Gosh, go out on a cold day and sit in the duck hole now versus 1975, go out and put these decoys out these spinning wing products, these pull strings, these boat motors, these camo patterns, my God, how times have change for the better not the worse. And I don’t know anybody. I’ll be honest with you. I know a lot of people in the industry that are on the payroll of different major, manufacturers and I don’t hear any of them in private, in confidentiality, let alone on public, I don’t see any of them running out and bashing their competitors, what I see them personally doing is the same that I do, they operate kind with the same mentality that I do that Russell never sleeps that to compete, I’ve got to compete with a superior product and the superior marketing campaign and I’ve got to work harder and work smaller and just do better and build better. And so, competition that way is very, very good at driving better. But what you do see happening is, wait a minute. What I see happening is, I see people that may or may not have any form of bona fide relationship with this particular product company, I see them doing it and their seem to be doing it for their own self-aggrandizing.

“That’s more what I meant, when I said that a minute ago. And I agree with you that comes from the clickiness of what has become the industry and that’s more of what I meant. And it’s just like there’s no rhyme or reason for it.”

Josh Webb: That’s more what I meant, when I said that a minute ago. And I agree with you that comes from the clickiness of what has become the industry and that’s more of what I meant. And it’s just like there’s no rhyme or reason for it. It’s just what happened. It’s just they want to pat a on the back whether –

Ramsey Russell: But you know what the pro staff environment has done, it has created a whole new monster. I can think of one because he’s a “competitor” a non-competitor, but a competitor in my business and if I look at his personal profile, he is an “ambassador” or “pro staff” what about 50 different people that I know for a bona fide fact he doesn’t even know. But to make himself look good, he has affiliated himself with brands that I bet most of them wouldn’t even like to know they’re affiliated with him. And you see what I’m saying? It’s created this thing out there, man. It’s weird. It’s crazy how the internet – but to get back on track out, we initially started now Rocky, I mean, the internet had created major opportunities for people.

Rocky Leflore: Let me lay this out for you. I have become really close friends with a – I’m going to lay it out in two different industries for you. Okay? All right, I’ve become really good friends with a guy that he hosts a football sports podcast. Now, we have more listeners to this podcast than he has. We have better metrics than he has, okay? This is as detailed as I can get it. For you those listening, I’m not begging for you to send your money in to be an advertiser with us. Okay, let’s take that off the table because I’m just like Ramsey, I’m not going to promote anything unless I believe in it. And Josh is the same way. Now, I say all that we have better metrics than his podcast. His podcast is bringing almost $18,000 a month in advertising dollars for people that want him to advertise for their business on his podcast, $18,000 a month and we have better metrics than him. But what I’m saying is I have people all the time inside the hunting industry, hey, let me send you a free decoy. Let me send you a coat. You mention this on the podcast. What I’m saying is the hunting industry is so different, we set up this deal where I can give you free stuff and you advertise for me.

Josh Webb: I agree with it.

Ramsey Russell: Free stuff doesn’t feed my kids. It doesn’t fill gas in my truck, it’s free stuff doesn’t matter to me, I guess if I were, you know, joseph rag man duck hunter, that was sitting on outside, yeah, I’ll take all the free stuff I can get, but I’m not. The downside, I’m no mega influencer, but the downside of, as you gain a public profile at all, you just really got to be careful. I’ve just learned and Jake and I are working on this project that has come along this Life’s Short Get ducks video series project and it’s just brought to bear some of the conversations that have developed over this and some of the things my vision and which is why I’m working very closely with Jake because he and I share a vision. I said Jake, I’m an organic brand, I’m an organic guy, I’ve got this international stories in duck hunting and I want to be true to myself and I want to tell a true story. Not a bam-bam strapping up duck hunt video no, I don’t want that. I want to tell the whole rich story of duck hunting. How four people in the blind from different parts of the world and different upbringing, everything else, how similar they are, how different they are, but how duck hunting is this uniting force and how similar duck hunting is around the world, but how vastly different duck hunting is between Mississippi and Azerbaijan. I want to tell this rich story, I want to bring it to the world. And if they just brought to bear, you start creeping into this topic line we’re talking about and it’s become a little murky for me because I don’t want to tell the corporate storyline. I will not tell corporate America’s storyline, I want to keep my story pure.

Rocky Leflore: What you’re saying is, when you agree to bring those people in, you’re agreeing for them to control the message somewhat.

“And the way I look at it is, my message is wholesome and pure and its conservation and it really gets down to the base level of promoting without promoting or a hunting advocacy and bringing awareness of duck hunting everywhere because it’s important.”

Ramsey Russell: Yes. And the way I look at it is, my message is wholesome and pure and its conservation and it really gets down to the base level of promoting without promoting or a hunting advocacy and bringing awareness of duck hunting everywhere because it’s important. It goes back to commodity value of wildlife and hunting and everything else, but like an implicit and talked about and spelled out to Jake as we started the show I said, Jake it’s very important to me that you understand, I’m not asking you to make me a star of this show. In fact, I don’t want to, I will be on it because it’s my hunts but I want to craft a story of duck hunting, I want to hunt and the art of hunting and the species and the places and the people that are a part of the cultural backdrop in making these hunts happen, that is the “star”. I don’t want fame. I don’t need fame. I am who I am and I broker duck hunts and things like that for a living, but I’m not a rock star, I don’t want to be, I’m a duck hunter. And I want to tell that this real true story of duck hunting and so my thought train is, if this thing catches wind, if it gets out there, if it gets some traction and people begin to see it and relate to it and connect to it, kind of like they did some of these podcasts, we’ve done with you or just our brand and social media in general, if they do begin to show fidelity for the show, I want to keep the message pure and if somebody in industry sees it and sees how it can relate to their product, then maybe we will consider pursuing that but what I’m not going to do is, I’m not going to say, okay, here’s my show and my version of duck hunting, this humble pure version of international duck hunting, so you’ll tell me how you want to reach, we sell more of your product, I ain’t going to do that. What we’re going to do, what we will do, if somebody was interested in, what we could do is we could – you’ll see coming up in upcoming weeks where there will be a 6 or 7, 8 minute episode on Australia and Argentina and Nebraska and Wyoming and the next year we’ve got laid out. But then there’s going to be a subsidiary or support reels. It’s going to be a little lead ends and little, sizzle reels that kind of lead into it. They’re built around the main story. And then that would be a place that if we believed in the product, if the product were consistent with what we were doing, if the product could be mobile and transferred, if it could be woven it, then we would consider, okay, we’re here in a minute and a half, two minutes, we can do something very sincere and creative that will benefit hunters because understand now, Rocky, it goes back to that objectivity and this a sticking point for me. It goes back to that professional objectivity that is my promise to my consumer, to my client, to my guest, is that personal objectivity that benefits them. The product should benefit them. It should truly benefit the people that I’m putting in front of, it should be something beneficial to them. It should add quality to their lives, the same that I believe going on some of these hunts, if you’re interested in doing it would benefit your life. And that’s a personal thing. It’s very hard for me to break out personal from professional because what I do for a living is so personal and I just believe the end of the day, I’ve got to be true to myself. And that is how and why, we were able to find our footing and find our trail and find our bearings and start the path of building on this wild frontier called the internet because there we had our – my own voice uncorrupted my vision the way I thought it should be, the products I use what works for me, be it shooting gadwalls or put the gun together out in the marsh, I mean it’s the whole process and it’s pureness organic. And I think and what do I know, but I think personally, Rocky, I take what 99% of your listeners and 99% of your Facebook users post on duckssouth.com. I learned a lot from people, I have to click profile to see who they are. I learn a lot from those people on a multitude of subjects, yet they’re no celebrity, they’re just duck hunters like myself and they bring value. And the reason I don’t think I’m engineered to be celebrity is because I just don’t believe in that stuff. You want to be a rock star? Great, you know what, there’s one Elvis Presley and you ain’t him, I ain’t Elvis, follow what I’m saying? Celebrity, it goes back to something that discussion I heard on the radio the other day Rocky, Josh, why do you want to be famous? Why do people seek fame? Why do they seek it? And one reason they seek it is money. That’s not the number one reason and another reason they do it is creates avenues or different things, but you know what the discussion boiled down to is the number one reason people want to be famous, I think goes back to these Insta fame type people, you all were talking about wearing bikinis, I probably follow some of it to be honest with you guys, but the reason they want to be famous is simply they’re on vanity. And I have no vanity like that. I just don’t, I am who I am and I try to stay true to myself included what worked for me at a very personal and visceral level and that’s why I don’t want to be a rock star, I just don’t. I’ll play music for living but I don’t have an ambition.

Rocky Leflore: But that’s what I’m saying is, that’s why I want to jump in the boat with you, if I’m corporate America. If you’re using my product, I’m going to pay you to talk about it because you believe in it. It’s not because I’m giving you a free product.

Ramsey Russell: It’s crazy Rocky, I believe part of our marketing success, part of our organic marketing success has been the fact that we don’t sell. Rocky believe or not, I’ve talked about Argentina, we’ve talked about Mexico, we’ve talked about different things on your podcast, but I don’t sell, I pale. I’ve had people in the booth with me sometimes, my gosh, where’d you learn to sell like that? I shrug and say I’m a dumb forester and wildlife biologist and my background at Mississippi State doing research is telling, communicating. When people come to a booth and ask about a hunt or people call me and ask about a particular hunt they’re asking me for substance, they’re asking me for facts. And it’s just whether I’m posting a picture on Instagram, whether I’m speaking to you on a podcast or some other avenue out in the world, what I have found is if I believe in it, I’ve been to the lodge, I’ve worked with the outfitter for a long time, I believe in this product. I believe this is the best I wear this coat because it works very, very well for me. It’s light when I travel, it’s waterproof, it fits great, everything else I like about is durable, it blends in with the habitat that I hunt and I believe in it. And so really and truly because I believe in it, I can tell the story and I mean, look, I just can’t see myself ever sitting up on a used car lot type advertising going, I wear this coat because it’s best, it’s dry, that’s BS nobody wants to hear that nobody wants to be, they just want to know the fact they want a good credible source they can go and research to. So, it’s going to be interesting times ahead as this, as our path continues to move forward. It’s going to be interesting, but it’s already presented me with trying to think about what will I do? What will I do if somebody were to want to become involved and want to become, some kind of level like that. I don’t want their product unless I believe in it and I’ll take all you’ve got, the truth matter is, I do sell duck hunts, that’s how I make my living, but I don’t want to sell everything under the sun.

Rocky Leflore: Let me ask you this. All right. I know Ramsey Russell, I’m just going to pull the product out of the air, Okay? Let’s say Ramsey Russell is a Yeti user, Okay? Let’s just say that you’re a Yeti cooler user, let’s put it in the college football analogy. You’ve got a diehard old Miss fan and he’s very popular with Ole Miss fans. Why would I not want to pay the guy, that’s already a huge fan, he’s already known among the rebel fan base to promote a product for me in the same sense in the duck hunting world, I know that you believe in Yeti without even being paid. Why wouldn’t I just want to even take you to the next level and say, hey Ramsay man, I want you to promote Yeti for me, I know that you believe in it. I want to pay you to promote Yeti. That’s the way that I would look at it from the corporate boardroom. I don’t want to send Joe blow a cooler and say, hey man, put it up on the Instagram. I don’t think that that moves the needle. I think influencers move the needle. And to get an influencers that are already believes in my product and pay them, yeah, you’re really talking about moving the needle.

Ramsey Russell: I don’t know Rocky. I don’t live in a corporate boardroom and I don’t have access to their metadata. I don’t know why they make decisions they make, but it’s working for them. So whatever they’re doing, it’s working for them –

Rocky Leflore: But I think it’s easy for them.

Ramsey Russell: It doesn’t reconcile. It just doesn’t reconcile with me. It doesn’t reconcile with my personal organic brands to think like that. So, that’s a whole new frontier for me is, I don’t know Rocky, I really don’t know.

Rocky Leflore: But what I’m saying is have we, not me and you, but if we as hunters, have we made it easy on the hunting industry to get their products out? All this pro staff stuff, all this ambassador stuff we give it to them and we’ll give you a 20% discount if you’ll help us promote our product. Let’s move the needle with people that matters is what I’m saying.

Ramsey Russell: I would think so. But I’ve got some really good relationships with people that think and do like that, but I think a lot of people think, people that maybe listen and think well Ramsey’s in the industry and I’m not. It’s basically merchandise –

Rocky Leflore: If you want to think about it, you are a hero, a superhero of duck hunting, I don’t care if you’re that humble.

Ramsey Russell: Okay, Rocky. In the duck hunting community, I am involved in the duck hunting community, the world of duck hunting but to me industry, is product is merchandise and I don’t sell merchandise. And so –

Rocky Leflore: But you are an influencer.

Ramsey Russell: I’m related to merchandise. I’m related to merchandisers, I don’t say, that to me merchandise is industry. And I don’t because I don’t sell merchandise, I don’t really understand it. I just know, I know that we started out this path, we’ve worked out a lot of good relationship with print media and television media and internet media, things that nature, we got a good relationship with a lot of different merchandisers and that’s all good and fine, but that’s why it’s so important to me is, if I’m on television show A or something like that, my story is a sub part of their story and what I saw missing from my standpoint is, I want to tell a story and you think about the social media response to the getducks.com brand, it always makes me just scratch my head and think about it. We’re not coca cola or Nike or some brand that has millions on millions of followers we’re not that brand, we’re very down part of food chain but if you look at what’s on our peg with us, our competitors and people that’s like us, they have a several 100 or a few 1000 followers and we’re way up there past 100,000. Our reach is far greater than that just on the message part. And the reason that is because our message, even though we sell a certain product within the duck hunting community, these trips of a lifetime type deal, our message is more encompassing just to duck hunters in general. We welcome all duck hunters in the fold and it’s just to make the message and how we communicate with people and how we built a brand is not for discriminating hunters, it’s for hunters. We do advocate hunting, we do advocate Children in the field. We do advocate and you can see them and just by the way we express ourselves in social media on the internet in large, it’s not about what you hunt with or how you hunt, it’s why you hunt and who you hunt with. That to me is the universal truths those two questions. The who and the why are the universal message in duck hunting. And that’s what we intend to tell with our upcoming video series.

Rocky Leflore: But my point in this, I’m speaking from a personal point now. If Ramsey Russell tells me he uses a certain product, I’m more likely to buy that product is what I’m saying. Because I know Ramsey Russell spends 320 days in the field compared to somebody that’s sitting in the United States that may spend 80 days because if it works for him 320 days, I’m probably going to use it. And he says that –

Ramsey Russell: I can see that.

Rocky Leflore: And the Ramsey Russell of the world – the Ramsey Russell says that I’m more likely to buy it. If Ramsey Russell were to say that Yeti cooler is the best thing I’ve ever owned. I’m more likely to buy that Yeti cooler because I know Ramsey Russell is using the hell out of his Yeti cooler. Or whether it be Sitka gear, whatever it may be, I know that you’re using yours 320 days out of the year, I’m more likely to buy it, not because you’re my friend because, it’s because I know you’re putting it through living hell and if it works for you, I’m probably going to buy it.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah, thank you Rocky. I use after those words, I hate wet feet and I hate hot beer. And I hate guns don’t go boom when the duck of a lifetime comes sailing into the decoys. So, boy I tell you what man being halfway across the world and in knee deep in the duck hole or shooting those kind of hunt, that’s the wrong time, that’s a wrong place to be when your boots start leaking or your gun don’t fire. You got to travel with stuff that you believe in the stuff that works. But yeah, I don’t know how this world. But Rocky, it really to me and to you anybody listening, it doesn’t matter, it really doesn’t matter, the wise of that part of the thing because at the end of the day, the old buffalo herds to get – how we started the show, the old buffalo herds and go stand over there by themselves because I can go make my own herd. You know what I’m saying? I can make my own heard with this internet and with the opportunities that exist for everybody willing to spend put a little skin in the game and mostly time some money too. Those paths and those opportunities exist for everybody right here right now. This internet has been a huge changer and you watch, I believe in time Rocky that you know, you have become a major influencer yourself. You have got man, you’ve got old guys like me listening to podcasts. You got me thinking about subjects from just like Bill Cook talk another day about the red tide down in Florida. I’m becoming increasingly aware of things and because it’s kind of an unfiltered message and a medium I should say, a medium that allows an unfiltered message to go out and discuss things that those old bulls those old musk ox stand in a circle guarding the content in the middle those days are dying. And if you’re asking me about using a gun or using the product or using this or using that, I’m using what works. I’m using what people I know get out there and that I respect as true hunters like I think of a true hunter. I like you think of a true hunter, he think of true hunter like not just because a guy drawback and shoot an Elk 6, 7, 8 yards. I believe in product that I’ve used and that people that I greatly respect as true hunters use and believe in. And man if you really want to do some research and gain some insight today and be a savvy user, you can find a multitude of honest voices out there on the internet, on podcast and all this digital world we’re living in. And we can shrug off and you know, and the internet is not a place to find information, it is a medium for communication and look at how time to change Rocky since the onset of this new world we live on the internet for example, television advertising. Does anybody at all really watch television advertising anymore because the shows very few shows that I actually positively watch on television, guess what? I T-bow them. And 4-6 clicks will get me right next to the next segment and I miss it all. I don’t have to be sold too. And so, I think, that the way that I communicate and grow my brand, the way I communicate and develop new client relationships and new friendships and relate, that whole bottle whack, it’s changed with the internet, but also the way, that I’m willing to receive information and from whom I’m willing to filter information has changed too and it will continue to change. It’s going to be different in 8 months, it’s going to be different in 10 years from where it is right now. But Rocky, you’re on the same path that I am, a lot of your people listening, they’ve got ideas, they’ve got voices, they’ve got things that they want to express and the opportunity exists, like it never has before, getducks.com would not have been possible back in the 70s or 80s or 90s. It could not have been possible. It could really not have been possible in that time frame because of the way the world existed in the way the world communicated, especially in the outdoor world and when the internet came out – I think, I discussed in a previous podcast when the internet came out, when I started getducks.com, I did not start with a master plan to get from there to here, that it happened and it happened very organically and it happened I stir them with what I got. We got a few minutes. I want to tell you a story Rocky. In your whole life, you hear a lot of conversations, you hear a lot of things are said and every now and then something is said to you that impacts your life profoundly and they take –

Rocky Leflore: We will close out with this story, but go ahead.

Ramsey Russell: Okay. When I was in junior college I swapped majors, I think, I told you from accounting, which would be like putting Muhammad Ali in brain surgery, I belong in the county like Muhammad Ali with a brain as a surgeon, it just didn’t fit. But I swapped over in the forestry and wildlife and had to take some courses while I was there in junior college like soils and threw me over agriculture. And we had a guy named Dr. Boyd, I believe his name was. But anyway, he was kind of a head up guy there in junior college and he got me involved in the little Ag club or whatever it was there and what that basically mean was on Friday we would go meet over there the Ag building and we would listen to guest speakers come in like seminar at lunchtime. And I couldn’t tell you anybody that I saw in that whole ordeal, I can’t remember anybody else, an entire semester or year of people coming in and out on Friday afternoons and talking to us during seminar but one person it was Jim Buck Ross then the over Agriculture. Agricultural Commissioner for the state of Mississippi came in to talk with us one day little Jim Buck Ross Tallahatchie, Mississippi came in to talk to us and I really can’t tell you everything, he said Rocky, but he started telling this story that I had remembered for the rest of my life. And he started telling this story that back during World War 2 they would go down to the sale barn, there at Mississippi trade center on cattle buying day, stuff like that and a little cafe there and between doing all their business selling cattle buying, calculate things, they’d all go to cafe and eat lunch and he walked in one day and he ordered, I don’t know what he ordered, the blue plate special whatever like that and brought him out a glass of iced tea and back in those days, tea came as tea and you have to sweeten it yourself and she gave him one sugar packet, he put his sugar packet in there and stirred it up but it wasn’t sweet and how that works you got to make sweet tea, you got to make sweet tea. But he put a sugar packet in there and he stirred it up he took a sip and it wasn’t sweet enough when the waitress came back – remember this World War Two and sugar and meat a lot important things being rationed for the soldiers and when the waitress came back, ma’am I need another sugar pack. And she said need another sugar packs? She held up the glass and take a little bit sugar floating around in the bottom says honey, you got to stir what you got because that’s all you get. And he gave his tea back and didn’t give him sugar. And his message to us, now that a young, impressionable age’s message to us was, you’ve all got what you got, and that’s all you’re going to get. You got to stir what you got for the rest of your life, you got to take what you were given and you got to stir it, you’ve got to make it work. And that brings back on point Rocky, of how my brand grew and it’s continuing to grow and how your brand has grown and will continue to grow and how anybody listening just talk about this stuff, is how whether it’s a personal relationship or a business brand or getting their word out and building their brand and this new frontier called the internet. You just got to take what you have and stir what you got. And this internet has done it. It did it for us. You know, we exist because we were able to get our message out, our true message, stay true to ourselves and get our message out in this new frontier called the internet. That’s how we did it. That’s how we’ll continue to do it. That’s how everybody listening will do it. At the end of the day, you just got to stir what you got Rocky.

Rocky Leflore: What an awesome story to end this episode on. That’s a really, really good point to end on. Snd look before anybody sends me any messages or comments on the, up under this podcast when I was talking about the metrics of the podcast earlier. Well, I know you’re probably going to say, oh they probably just sell advertising better, nope, they’re total introverts and they don’t sell anything. So, before anybody comments or send to me about those messages. But Ramsey, what an awesome discussion today. I don’t think that we could have made these points any better, man, it’s been a great discussion and look, I appreciate you making me smarter on our weekly phone calls of listening to you.

Ramsey Russell: I don’t know, Rocky. You know what my weekly visits with Rocky Leflore do for me the subject matters we talked and steps through memory lanes and just speaking these things out, it helps me find my personal and professional bearings. Because sometimes I get so – man, this week has been horrifically busy. When I get that creative mode, I’m working online, I’m going through the nights that’s when the phones aren’t ringing, my phones are ringing during the day, my emails are coming in during the day and at night-time the house is quiet, the world is asleep and I’m working. That’s how I build the entire website, getducks.com, 90% of it was built between 10 at night and 6 in the morning. And so, I’ve been doing that lately and so sometimes you get your nose to the grindstone, you’ve got all these blinders on all these distractions going on and you just kind of lose sight, you kind of lose yourself in your work and being able to talk to you a lot of the topic that you and I have discussed over the week –

Rocky Leflore: On and off the air.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah. On and off the air Rocky. A lot of the topics and discussions you and I have had since standing with me, you and Josh in a dove field on a hot September day has made me a better person, just because I’m reminded every time I come a little bit closer to home and I’m reminded of where my true barring’s are, but I enjoy this and I hope all the folks listening would enjoy it too.

Rocky Leflore: Well, it’s been a great podcast. Ramsey, I’ve enjoyed it, Josh, thank you. I want to thank all of you that listened to this edition of The End of The Line podcast, power by ducksouth.com

[End of Audio]

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