LIfe’s Short, Get Ducks: ” Preferences, Hefinator Stories, Huge Announcement about a Future Potential Guest, and My Foiles Breakthrough Story

Rocky Leflore: Welcome to The End of The Line Podcast, I’m Rocky Leflore in the Duck South Studios in Oxford, Mississippi. And it is Thursday, joining me on the other end of the line, I always get that mumble jumbled up Ramsey, Ramsey Russell.

Ramsey Russell: What are you doing Rocky? Look, if life was any better, I would already have my teeth sunk into this 3 quarter pound bacon tomato lettuce sandwich I’m fixing to eat. And boy, I love a BLT. I’ll tell you what I love BLT and I don’t like a bacon flavored BLT, I like a bacon BLT. If it ain’t got a half pound worth of bacon on it, it ain’t a sandwich. I’m sitting here, mama just pulled the bacon out of oven and I’m already drooling. We got to be quick.

Rocky Leflore: You can keep the lettuce off of it, I’m just a bacon tomato guy.

Ramsey Russell: Man, I know.

Rocky Leflore: There’s one very specific thing that I will not swear from nobody. I’ll drive to the store if it’s not in somebody’s refrigerator. The only kind of mayonnaise I’ll eat is blue plate.

“I would eat a tomato and bacon sandwich without mayonnaise before I eat blue plate and ain’t judging everybody just got their own flavor but you got to try Duke’s mayo. Duke mayonnaise is the only mayonnaise.”

Ramsey Russell: No, that’s where you’re messing up, man. No, I want to explain. I would eat a tomato and bacon sandwich without mayonnaise before I eat blue plate and ain’t judging everybody just got their own flavor but you got to try Duke’s mayo. Duke mayonnaise is the only mayonnaise. And I’m bad about –

Rocky Leflore: Ramsey your crazy man.

Ramsey Russell: I got my own jar in refrigerator because I sit there, I’ll be making a sandwich and just eat a tablespoon of it, so good. Duke’s mayonnaise. 

Rocky Leflore: Ramsey, you are cursed from this point on.

Ramsey Russell: No.

Rocky Leflore: People cursing you right now,

Ramsey Russell: Are you kidding me, I don’t care. That’s because they never had real mayonnaise. That’s like saying, oh I’ll only eat a McDonald’s hamburger. Well, folks McDonald’s ain’t a hamburger, I don’t know what it is, but it ain’t no hamburger and blue plate is not mayonnaise. That’s just white stuff in a jar. Man, you aren’t a real man. I’ll tell you why I like Duke’s, my grandmother Russell to my knowledge and she died when I was probably 16, 17 years old, to my knowledge that woman couldn’t cook but one thing that was mayonnaise. She made from scratch homemade mayonnaise that was to die for.

Rocky Leflore: Really?

Ramsey Russell: And then she would do something like, she would make it real thin with lemon juice and used it as salad dressing and a very simple salad it’s all I ever ate. I mean, she made mayonnaise and then she would take that mayonnaise and make like a dressing and it was unbelievable. And Duke’s taste like her homemade mayonnaise. I mean it is just to boil down simple of whatever eggs and oil and whatever else you put in mayonnaise, it is fine, it is real mayonnaise and –

Rocky Leflore: What about ketchup?

Ramsey Russell: I’ll eat gobs and gobs of it. Ketchup, I like a lot of different ketchups. I’m really not brand loyal on ketchup. I do eat Heinz and some of these restaurants – I don’t like a real that old cheap ketchup but I like Heinz better than Hunts. Anita bought like a pure ketchup that didn’t have corn syrup or something in it. I think it’s Heinz also and it is really good but it’s tangy, still salty.

Rocky Leflore: Hunts is not tangy.

Ramsey Russell: I’m not a ketchup purist. I like good ketchup, good tangy spicy ketchup. Go ahead.

Rocky Leflore: Let me say this, you brought a box of ketchup with every brand there is and set it on the table and said all right Rocky, you got to pick out your favorite ketchup. I don’t know what it is Heinz in a plastic bottle, okay. You put your Heinz in a glass bottle. Remember the ones that you would sit on the –

Ramsey Russell: Oh yeah.

“You go into a diner, that ketchup for some reason tastes different than any other ketchup in the world.”

Rocky Leflore: You go into a diner, that ketchup for some reason tastes different than any other ketchup in the world.

Ramsey Russell: Well, that’s just like those little 6 ounce old timey Coca Cola’s in a bottle. They tasted better than the tall bottle of coke. And I’ve always marveled at Coca Cola because back when I was in college, it was just sheer marketing deception on the American public because they decided, they could make a whole lot more money putting corn syrup in a Coca Cola than sugar. But they didn’t come out. They knew if they changed anything, America was going to revolt. So what they did is they just took Coca Cola off the shelf and come out with new coke and it was just horrible, it was terrible. And the expected reaction America absolutely revolted, I mean, it’s pre-social media but man, I mean you thought it was a meltdown. Everybody hated coke, they were selling off their personal stock they had for generations and everything else. And then Coco said, okay, we’re going to come back out with the real thing and they put them red label bottles back on the shelves, but it was different and it had corn syrup instead of sugar and it’s still good, don’t get me wrong. But man, let me tell you what, everywhere else in the world that I go from Azerbaijan, Mexico, Argentina, South Africa, everybody put sugar in Coca Cola and that is just like that Coca Cola was meant to be with cane sugar. But I don’t know why it was back in those old days my grandmother, same grandmother made mayonnaise but she liked those little 6 ounce Coca Cola’s, she would never buy the big tall glass, she bought a little short bottles and they were always so much better than the big bottles. It was same thing but they were different.

Rocky Leflore: Oh man, I remember Mountain Dew came in that little 6 ounce bottle back in the 80s. I’m not a Mountain Dew fan but that Mountain Dew that used to come in that little 6 ounce Pony bottle, oh man, it was unreal. Unbelievable. Hey, let me ask you this question, I want to ask you something and we’ll get away from this food and choice stuff. But all right, let’s say you’ve been in prison for 10 years man, once a day they brought you a bottle of water you got thirsty, the day you get out of prison outside of the prison doors, hey, you’re a thirsty guy, there on the table is a bottle of water or Pepsi which one would you pick up and drink?

Ramsey Russell: Pepsi.

Rocky Leflore: Would you really?

Ramsey Russell: Yeah, I drink Pepsi. Pepsi is not Coca Cola but it ain’t bad.

Rocky Leflore: In a world travel I can see you drinking Pepsi.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah, but the truth of the matter is God’s honest truth, I don’t drink soft drink much anymore, I mean hardly ever, do I drink a soft drink. I don’t eat McDonald’s, I don’t eat fast food but I don’t drink soft drinks. I might drink – a few times a year I drink diet coke, that’s it. I really don’t drink much soft drinks at all. So maybe. Yeah, but if I had been drinking water in jail for like Pepsi on for 10 years I’m sure I would go and give me just something different for a change. I drink Pepsi.

“But that’s the thing that bothers me. You let any red blooded American walk into a store and pick a Pepsi over a Coke something’s wrong with that guy.”

Rocky Leflore: There’s some places in the world you’re not going to find a coke, the only thing they have is Pepsi. But that’s the thing that bothers me. You let any red blooded American walk into a store and pick a Pepsi over a Coke something’s wrong with that guy.

Ramsey Russell: They’re probably from the North. Hate to say it, but they’re probably from the North. Man, Coca Cola is a southern as it gets and I just can’t imagine somebody choosing any – and I like RC cola once in a freaking blue moon, but not really. I mean I probably hadn’t drank once since high school. Why? When you can go get a Coca Cola. My wife, she cuts back on that kind of stuff, she’s for some reason. But some guys might bring home flowers for their wives, you know what I bring home? There’s a quick stop down the road that sales old bottled Coca Cola’s but they got a little white label on because they come out of Mexico and they got real sugar. It tastes just like those Coca Cola’s back in the 70s, that’s what I’ll buy her because she says she ain’t going to drink it, but she does. I’ll put 3 or 4 of them in the refrigerator and they’re gone in a few days. She loves Coca Cola. But you all need to try Duke’s mayonnaise and I’m going to tell you right now you need to try Duke’s mayonnaise. I just don’t believe you choose blue plate over Duke’s there’s just ain’t no way. Now, I can see you’re swigging it down with Pepsi Cola or something.

Rocky Leflore: Oh, get out of here. The only people that drink Pepsi are liberal’s foreigners or soccer players.

Ramsey Russell: I really don’t see Pepsi – I’m just trying to think of any country I’ve been in and walked into a store because that is one cool thing I like to do if I’m in a new country, it’s kind of cool going into their grocery stores and walking around and just walk the aisles and see and you tell a lot about people by just seeing, walking in the grocery store and checking it out.

Rocky Leflore: Chinese and Mexicans love Pepsi.

Ramsey Russell: I can see that. But boy, I see Coca Cola everywhere they are a dominant market forces. Coca cola is everywhere and I mean everywhere the real thing.

Rocky Leflore: I can see. Like I said, I don’t have a problem with foreigners as much as I do soccer lovers and soccer players and liberals.

Ramsey Russell: Boy you were struggling getting back on them condiments where you would struggle is in foreign countries with things like ketchup. Argentina, shoot man, you might as well skip. I don’t know what it is but it ain’t ketchup.

Rocky Leflore: What about pancake syrup?

Ramsey Russell: You asked me what kind I like?

Rocky Leflore: Yeah.

Ramsey Russell: I mean really and truly is as little as I eat it, I’m going to go for the real maple syrup. Just a real in a metal can maple syrup. And if I don’t eat that I wanted to have that maple flavor.

Rocky Leflore: I am a Blackburn.

Ramsey Russell: I knew you’re going to say that. That’s good on good butter biscuits, you can’t beat Blackburn. I have got a friend from Georgia that every year sends me just – I don’t even talk to him all year and he’ll just send me a text, I got something coming to you and I know what it’s going to be, he makes a sorghum molasses. Now that little tin of sorghum molasses, he sends every year he’ll send some homemade pepper sauce and different stuff but that homemade tin of molasses is fine. I really don’t eat a lot of biscuits stuff too much. But well, I’ll tell you what, I don’t make baked beans without putting brown sugar and good dark black molasses in it. That’s never going to happen. No, you can’t make baked beans without that.

Rocky Leflore: A lot of people have asked me about – we talked about John Taylor last week, Ramsey and a lot of people have asked me about that, man he had a rough weekend, but doing a little bit better this week. I ask all the people that’s listening to this, if you believe in prayer, please pray for our friend John Taylor great guy-

Ramsey Russell: Yeah, please do. Great guy –

Rocky Leflore: Great human being, great friend.

“I said, don’t feel bad. I said, if you hear the worse, let’s pray we don’t, but if you hear the worse, I mean go out and spend time with the memory of John and shoot ducks like John would. You know what I’m saying? Because I know where John would rather be and down there shooting a bunch of ducks.”

Ramsey Russell: I got one of our mutual friends he and I is going to Argentina, leaving Sunday for Argentina going to Rio Salado, John supposed to be there and he’s like man, I feel bad, something could happen? I said, don’t feel bad. I said, if you hear the worse, let’s pray we don’t, but if you hear the worse, I mean go out and spend time with the memory of John and shoot ducks like John would. You know what I’m saying? Because I know where John would rather be and down there shooting a bunch of ducks. He was a fine man and a fine duck hunter and it’s been heavy on my heart because he was such a good guy and he is a good guy and I just hate to see him in his mind he’s in. But he’s a fierce man and he’s hanging in there my gosh, he’s hanging in there Sunday night he hit a rough patch, but he’s still hanging in and he could still come out of it.

Rocky Leflore: Yeah, I’ve been texting back and forth with Hunter a lot his son and seems to be doing better, a little better this week. But he’s a tough old guy. Not in a old age, like in the old age, but old, tough old guy.

“And what I would tell anybody whether you listen to those podcasts or not, listen to them but this is serious business nowadays. The man went into jail for migratory bird violation, let alone money, let alone not getting to hunt. If going out and hunting and taking the good and the bad and the ugly, the great days when you shoot 6 ducks and the bad days when you scratch in the middle between days which is most days when you shoot somewhere between scratch and the limit, enjoy those days, enjoy for what they are.”

Ramsey Russell: Yes, he is. He sure is. And I appreciate everybody that believes in the power of prayer saying more. You know there’s a lot to be said for our prayer. But I’ve enjoyed listening to your guests. I tell you, you got so many good guests coming on your podcast now, I get a little wrapped up and Jeff’s stories coming home. Between him and the guy Ryan, boy, it makes me feel paranoid about going out and doing this thing we like to do duck hunting. We do everything we can and it’s been a lot, I’m proud to see, I really am. I mean think about it Rocky, what you’ve done by bringing these podcasts on there are discussions going on about this stuff now. I mean there’s thread about tagging and documenting as a migratory bird preservation facility and a lot of questions going on, what do I do and does that mean I need to do this and all you can do is, there’s a lot of laws, I mean 50 CFR part 20, read them. Read them and try to do your best. How many duck camps do you think there are Rocky? In the state of Mississippi and the country. How many duck camp do you think there are to come in with straps of ducks and put them in a walk in cooler, put them in a pile and walk off. Maybe you can go home Sunday night forget about them leave them in the camp for somebody else to deal with, I dealt with that. I was Jesus in the Temple one time at a camp meeting because I was there by myself, now my strap has my name on it to which I add a tag when I come in because I don’t clean my ducks every morning, I just get a couple of day’s worth of ducks. And if the guy does shoot a mallard or 2 and doesn’t want to fool with him, I’ll take them and clean them. But I walked down to cooler one day there was my strap hanging up, there were 5 other strap just hanging, lands full of ducks hanging without a name, without nothing. There wasn’t a soul at that camp but old double R and them ducks disappeared, my duck stayed them ducks disappeared and next week as somebody said something about it, you better tag in birds and it became a Jesus in the Temple moment at a camp meeting. Those ducks are your responsibility because it won’t be into the poor soul sitting there minding his own business one Sunday evening, somebody rolls into check, you’re sitting there stuck with 5, 10 limits of ducks. Possessions 9-10 at law, whose are they? If they are not tagged. I would be furious if something like that happened to me. But it’s a pass through discussion this stuff is serious and these guys, who are in charge of enforcing these laws are taking it very serious. It’s scary to me but we owe it, don’t you think Rocky? We owe it to ourselves and to hunting and to the resource to do our best. And I’ve seen since we’ve been doing get ducks, I’ve seen what I perceived to be a shift in the modern hunter not speaking for everybody because that’s not the truth, there’s exceptions. But I can remember 15 years ago when people would call and ask about Argentina first question, how many ducks I am going to kill? Man, that question may not even come up these days because it’s more about the hunt and the whole element of the hunt then just trigger pulling. But I was reminded listening to a podcast, I was just listening to it, I don’t mind the other day listening to Jeff, listening to Ryan talk and I got to listen to my buddy Rob Heflin talk and I literally bust out laughing when the spoonys made me do it, when he said, well the spoonys made me do it. But it just made me think the whole nature of that conversation. We were all young one time, beginner but I did remember a Bible verse from 1^st Corinthians and said something in the nature. When we were Children, we talk like Children, we act like Children but when we grow up we act like men and men are responsible. And what I would tell anybody whether you listen to those podcasts or not, listen to them but this is serious business nowadays. The man went into jail for migratory bird violation, let alone money, let alone not getting to hunt. If going out and hunting and taking the good and the bad and the ugly, the great days when you shoot 6 ducks and the bad days when you scratch in the middle between days which is most days when you shoot somewhere between scratch and the limit, enjoy those days, enjoy for what they are. And if there’s something about you that you just can’t hardly stand it, you just got to shoot all you can see, call me up, let’s go to Argentina. I’ll wear you out shooting ducks down there, you’ll get your field but you really got to think about it. I can tell you what for what you’re going to deal with being careless and not respecting that law that is there to protect the resource. What you liable to pay and do without, you could have gone to Argentina and we’ve all been young before and carefree and willful of the law of those limits, we’ve all been there, I don’t believe anybody grew up dove hunt in Mississippi and didn’t shoot a few extra when they could. But then you grew up and realized and I’m not supposed to, there’s consequences. We were all young and dumb such a hot stove when they did, oh yeah, there’s consequences I don’t do that stuff. But I really enjoyed listening to Rob, I’m proud you brought him on and I know there’s some folks out there that don’t like Rob because he’s a game warden and I do believe that man would have written his mama a ticket.

“It was a lot of convincing.”

Rocky Leflore: It was a lot of convincing.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah, I believe that but I’m glad you got it on because Rob besides being a game warden and being knowledgeable – I guess he’s an ex game warden now, but being knowledgeable of a lot of the topic matter of fact, a lot of these questions that are being asked and how things to process what goes on, who doesn’t like an old game warden story, but Rob’s a storyteller man, he’s a good story teller. In fact Rocky, do you know this the first time way back when now but it wasn’t like back in the dark ages, but the first time I ever saw my name in getducks.com in print was the story that Rob wrote back in 2009. And what was his name Mississippi Game and Fish or Mississippi Wild it was one of these outdoor publications and Rob wrote a story about snipe hunting. And I had sent him – he had somehow know old MS ducks chatroom, I’m aware that I sniped hunted with decoys and it reached out to me and after that I sent him a couple of samples to look at Rob if you’re listening send them back, I can wait but I would like to get them back one day. And I had made some 5 gallon bucket full of snipe silhouettes and they work, they really work good, they’re oversized, they’re fairly big compared to a real snipe and put them on long dowel, some of them maybe 8-10 inches tall off the mud flap that way you can stick them in the mud a little bit if you’re hunting cut rice or a lot of stubble or something like that. The bird will get up above that cover where that snipe concealed. If you find a feeding area for Wilson’s snipe, I recommend not trying to catch them in a bag it don’t work but you can go out there and bust them out, I walking up in there and set your decoys out and they’ll come in, they’re going to come in and it’s very sporting as compared to a duck or a pigeon or anything else you might decoy because they come in at a real steep angle real fast into those decoys and you got to have some bird idea about you because everything will decoy, little snipe, yellow legs and dowitchers everything will come decoy into them. So you got to pay attention that its snipe shoot but they’re delicious. They’re smaller than a dove, but they’re very good to eat like a dove. They got a lot of fat, they’re very good to eat. And Rob had written that story. I went back and read it after listening to his podcast the other day and that was the first time, but he’s a very good storyteller and who knows what all he’s seen. And I really enjoyed that story about him catching those guys the other day and them blaming it on the spoony. The spoony made us do it and I really enjoyed that. And I’ll tell you his own story Rob would write his – I’m convinced he would buy his book now, back in the days since that story was written so it wasn’t too terribly long ago but it’s a good way back. I love to dove hunt, I love it. That time I got hurt and didn’t dove hunt, it’s the first time I can remember. So I would always dove hunt opening day and it’s a family tradition for my family. We love to dove hunt, we’re going to get together hell or high water and we’re going to go dove hunting Labor Day weekend or so. And we’ve got enough friends and you can get some good invites and I’ve been invited to this field up in the delta, one of the best dove fields I’ve ever hunted. I mean barn no, its just the geographic location of that field was really good hunting Rocky. But I had just gotten back from Argentina it was in wintertime and I was struggling with that heat man. I mean I was probably bad in out of shape too, but I was struggling with that heat. I’m glad I’ve knocked out my limit or nearly my limit and I decided I’m going to truck with my daughter. I am not going to sit up in the air conditioning, let Forrest and Duncan finish up getting their limit. And they each had a 12 gauge they bought themselves Benelli, took my 12 gauge back in the truck and I brought a little 20 gauge for Parker hadn’t been shot in forever. Little Benelli 20 gauge and carelessly, I didn’t check it for a plug, but why would I check it for a plug? Apparently the boys knew how to take a plug out, took a plug out squirrel hunting or something and didn’t put it back in and I didn’t check it. So there I’ve been sitting with her, she didn’t shoot, but it didn’t matter with an unplugged gun because I didn’t check it. And both the boys still love that gun they grew up shooting that gun. So when I walked the truck, they decided one of them wanted to shoot it. I was sitting there in the air condition starting to cool off when an ATV come up with some law enforcement, state law enforcement, very nice people. They really were nice and professional people, they were good folks and they started checking and I didn’t have nothing to be worried about. So I was just sitting there, just in air conditioned minding my own business, watching them check folks and watching folks stop shooting and all that good stuff. Well Duncan had been holding the unplugged gun at the time and one of the game wardens come and got me and we were talking and he was upset and he was talking about this unplugged gun. Well Duncan was 11 years old, let’s say I guess he was 11 and so I might have to give this boy a ticket. I said, no sir. You and I both know you can’t get an 11 year old ticket, you’re going to give it to his dad and I’m his daddy. It’s my fault that he’s shooting an unplugged gun, he don’t know any better. I ain’t going to lie to you, I was polite as I could be because this man was just doing his job, but I’m not lying when I say I can hear my heart beating through my lungs and my heart was attacking hard because of the heat and I said look, if you’re going to give me a ticket, give me a ticket. Let’s get this show on the road because we sit here and deliberate very long, I’m probably going to fall out and have a heat stroke and he didn’t know what to think when I said that and his partner come by, his partner had checked me, checked the truck, checked all the guns in the truck and seen they were plugged. He said, that’s fine, I checked that man’s guns, he knows gun is supposed to be plugged, that little boy shooting it, so just let him be. But what the issue was while we were having a discussion is not too far away was a 5 gallon bucket spilling over the top with doves, weren’t my dove, I can tell you that and not one of my kid’s doves, but it’s somebody doves, nobody was owning up, nobody was within 50ft of them doves, I can tell you there wasn’t nobody within 50ft of a 5 gallon bucket full of doves sitting out there as a seat. And there was one of the other hunter on the field being rancorous, I mean downright rude to the game wardens who were just out there doing their jobs and they said, whose bucket is that of doves? I said, I have no idea. I’ve been sitting over in the shade in my truck, well, it’s not my kids because they’re way over there where you stopped them and it’s not mine. He said, well whose is it? That guy right there? I said, I have no idea. Rocky, I was a guest on this field as far as I know that guy could have been the Lieutenant governor’s son, who knows? I don’t know who these people are, but I didn’t know who doves that were, so I just politely told the guy said, I don’t know whose doves they are, but they’re not mine and they’re not my boys. You agree with that? He said, yeah. I said, well I don’t know who they are and I’m a guest on this field, I don’t know who those people are, so it could be anybody’s. He understood that and let me go and as I was leaving I saw Rob Heflin. I was surprised he wasn’t on the field, he was out there talking to somebody on the road and I waved him and drove on back to camp. I made up my mind and I said, you know Ramsey, what if that field would have been baited? I wouldn’t have known. I mean really you think about it man, you’re getting invited hey, come over and dove hunt, you don’t know. And with that little issue right there, I was get ducks and things were cooking. And I said the last thing – I mean here I am getducks.com and didn’t think to check a child’s plug shotgun, that’s bad enough. Rocky, it’d been embarrassing. It would be just downright embarrassing get a ticket over something like that. Fine, it would take care, it would been embarrassing, it’d been humiliating, if they’ve got me a ticket and I’ve known Rob a long time, you know back in the old MS ducks days Rob before he’s a game warden, he did dove hunts – one time he invited a bunch of us off the board to come teal hunting with him and took my kids they were babies man. I mean they need to kind of like be carried in, you could pick them up and carry them into where we were going hunt they were babies. And we all kind of knew each other in that environment. And I remember Rob had a pay field and growing sunflowers is an expensive proposition, especially, if you and me and not a farmer. I called Rob that next season said, you got room in your field he said, yeah. I said, all right, I’ll send him a check. I’m going to hunt with Rob, I bet Rob’s field is legal. And he had a little old field up there around Belzoni him and I hunted with him I guess 3 years after that, so he got out of it. And this is getting back to Rob being by the book. The first time I went up there I got there a little late, didn’t know where to get and we shot, it was just me and Parker. We shot multiple limit and 4 year old calf rope I think I left one bird shoot but on the wrong side of field but still its good dove hunt. Next time we went I had my boys with me, I knew better yet where to go. I had a great idea where to go in that field having hunted there several times over the season. And got in there had 2 spots in the field there was me and my daughter if she went and my boys we’re just, that’s fine we’ll share 2 spots. So we booked out through that field and got started and it was good and we was in the right spot that day and he did really nice sunflower fields and he knew how to spray them just right and he would disk them just right, so you have some sunflowers, you had some open areas and you had some water back around you on both sides of the field, so it was just a nice little field. And one thing I enjoy about hunting that field is you sit out there on the gravel road before the hunt or after hunt just talk to folks. I like the people that were members or that we have been hunting for years with him. I liked the people a lot of them were just – a lot of them didn’t hunt nothing but doves and they were just a pleasure to talk to, they were good guys, I never remember an instance of somebody shooting at a low bird. They just got there and behaved and had a good time except one time there was a every guy. Rob has sent out an email said do not take to the field. I’m tired of arguing with people trying to cheat and do this and do that. So the stakes are staked out and do not go to the field until whatever time 01:00, I don’t remember what time, 01:00 whatever. And so we were all sitting there BS and talking and getting our stuff together, watching our watches, we’re all behaving, man says hunts field at 1 o’clock that’s when we’ll go at 1 o’clock and bing, 1 o’clock came and me and the boys grabbed our bucks and we knew just where we were heading only shade in the field. And halfway to it, here comes some guys from the back end on ATVs and their buckets were already out, which means they’ve been there before to shoot – to start time here they come to go get their buckets, I get mad. I’m like they cheated them cheaters. It didn’t matter by the time I got down to where they were Rob had come up behind them too and said you all – I said 1 o’clock start time, you all pack your stuff up when everybody else picks a spot. Then you all can go get your spot on field, he was that kind of fair guy. He said 01:00 and there ain’t going to be no cheating.

Rocky Leflore: He’s always been that way.

Ramsey Russell: He’s always been that way. I mean, but it kept harmony, it kept peace, it was his field and he said, you all take the field at 01:00 and here comes 3 or 4 guys cheating, sneaking in from the back way, going to later bucket out while we’re all up on the road, sweating and behaving. He put them to the back of the line man. And that worked out great that year. But I’ll never forget that 2^nd year we were hunting with him Forrest and Duncan wanted to hunt together, so they were – I don’t know how far those blinds were apart he would take little spots. I’m going to say 60 yards give or take, just real nice space out throughout the whole field. I went and found what I liked and they kept walking a little bit further back and it was good, it was steady, it was hot and blue blazers and Rocky, I grew up hunting where you couldn’t hunt Mississippi for opening day of dove season until noon. That’s when it started, it was always hot. Even as a child, it was just scorching – man there ain’t no word, I don’t think – hotter and in the middle of a wheat field or a dove field on September 1^st with the sun beating down on you, if anywhere hotter than that, I haven’t set foot in it and I’m really fond of this morning dove hunts. I will not lie to you. I like a morning dove hunt. But anyway, we get out there and we started to shoot, Rob was a guaranteed Rob was going to check every hunter in that field, his field, he would be there just right after the shooting started, he started making rounds on foot. He walked down the field and back all them roads checking hunters and I was proud man. I heard old Rob down there talking to Forrest and Duncan and they were laughing and cutting up and I mean, my boys known him since they were babies. He had known of them or known them, when Forrest was 8 years old and got into taxidermy, Rob, he knew Forrest was practicing a lot and man look blue bills and ruddy ducks they got skin thick as boot leather. They’re good practice ducks and Forrest was boy, the number of ruddy ducks and scaup he mounted, learning how to mount ducks through our buddy Pat Pit. Rob called me or wrote me one day and email and said, hey, I got a bunch, I’m sure he got him in from game warden and said, I’ll hang on to them and send them to Forrest practice birds if you like. I said sure and he sent a whole bunch of them and Forrest skin them and fleshed them and mounted them for practice, so they knew each other and they were laughing and cutting up and all of a sudden things got quiet. They no nothing about it, Forrest kind of shortly thereafter started walking my way with his head down. I figured maybe he done shooting his limit, I’m still one or two away and he come up to me and said, I got to go to truck Rob’s mad. I said what? He goes, now, I knew for a fact for a bonafide fact that I had put a plug and I had checked and made sure every gun was plugged previous year or 2, I got on the field with an unplug gun and got lucky. This year, I can tell you before we go dove hunt, we all check our plugs and show each other and I don’t know how the man put a shell in that gun but by God he hold the 4^th shell and the law don’t say that you got to shoot doves and ducks with a plug gun that ain’t what the law says, it says with a gun incapable of holding more than 3 shots. Forrest came to me with his gun and said he got a 4^th bullet in here Daddy. I said, the heck you say. He said to meet him at the truck and I said, well you better go meet him at the truck, I got one more dove to shoot so far, took off back towards the truck and Rob came to me and said, yeah, and lets go meet at truck talk to your son and I said, Rob the gun was plugged. He said, I know, but I got a bullet in Ramsey, he said, look this is my field, he said ain’t nobody is going to break the law in my field, I can’t have it. And it was like walking to the principal’s office after you have done something. Because not only Rob law enforcement and here I was with a gun somehow incapable of holding more than 3 shots or whatever but I mean, I knew Rob I was tired and ashamed, but I was sitting there wondering myself how in the world did he get – I don’t know how you got that shotgun shell in there, but I know I had to take that gun apart to get it out. But he got it in there and we’ve since swap plugs and I can’t get it in there and Forrest can’t get in the there, we can’t get a 4^th shell them guns mouth, now we swap plug. I don’t know what it was about that particular plug but he was able to get it, he was able to slide one in that magazine. And Forrest was 15 years old and Rob said look, you’re 15 years old. I could write you a ticket, but I’m not. He said, you know the rules and he said don’t come to my field again. In fact don’t hunt again with a gun that’ll hold a 4 shell no matter what, he said, I’m going to give you one warning this time because I was 15 one time myself. You see? That’s just common sense fair enough. I bet if it’s been my gun, he tried to get a 4 shell of mine, it wouldn’t fit, then he would have given me a ticket and I deserved it. I thought that I always remember him letting Forrest off the hook like that. I mean he took the opportunity to make an impression on him –

Rocky Leflore: Teachable moment.

Ramsey Leflore: Instead of doing what he could – a teachable moment and I’m sorry, but that’s just a fair as you can be. But Rocky, for reasons and podcasts have alluded to, for reasons that I did work with US Fishing and Wildlife service as a forester back in the day, we’ll talk about that one day. But he mentioned Mark Johnson a federal agent that priest came after Phil green up there Grenada, I knew those guys, I worked with them, they were in the office, I knew them. I would have been ashamed for my friend Mark Johnson a federal agent or for my friend Rob Heflin to show up and give me a ticket, I would have been ashamed of it. I mean, let alone have to pay a fine, have to forfeit something, that would be terrible but I would have been ashamed for what I have done that would maybe like, I might as well come to your house and see 5 dollars on the counter put in my pocket and get caught by you I would be that ashamed. It’s no sense in that kind of stuff. But anyway, I’m really looking forward to Rob’s story because he’s going to have some good stories, I’m sure.

Rocky Leflore: You bring up an interesting name and as crazy as this sounds, guess who I’m eating lunch with tomorrow?

Ramsey Russell: Who?

Rocky Leflore: Mr. Phil Green himself.

Ramsey Russell: Holy cow. Man, tell him I said hello because I’m going to tell you Phil Green, I guarantee you that name still evokes fear and trembling up in North Delta Mississippi. I have never heard of him. I graduated Mississippi State University, I didn’t hunt that part of the world, I didn’t hunt the free state of Tallahatchie. I didn’t hunt up there, when I showed up at the office, I didn’t know who he was, I had never heard of him. And that’s like old rooster cog burn of Sheriff. He was sent down to clean up in North Delta Mississippi and he did it. He was the High Sheriff and I didn’t know all that.

Rocky Leflore: It’s just like, you say. You can say the name for water fowler it still – your hair stands up.

Ramsey Russell: Well, mine didn’t because I was always kind of legal down there, but as I lived in Grenada 3 years and I did start hunting that part of the world and I was active in Ducks Unlimited. And then the president and everybody had a Phil Green story, every duck hunter had a Phil Green story. And I got to hear because the walls was thin, I got to hear a lot of stuff in the office and Rocky, I’ll tell you what, if you can ever get that man on your podcast and luckily for me I did not have a problem with Phil Green, like I say when he wasn’t out doing special agent kind of stuff, I see him around the office sometimes and he wasn’t just always Mr. Conversationalist. I can tell you, he wasn’t a lot about small talk but I did one time – several times, we sit at the coffee table and talk and visit and man just he had seen so much, he’d seen some things, he’s seen some changes in the day, he had seen some of those changes we talked about all the different changes on the landscape and how it affected duck. He had seen since he had showed up North Delta, he had seen a lot of profound changes, he’s seen the worst. Phil Green told me something one time and I’m not trying to paint him into a corner, nothing else but it made an impression on me Rocky. It made an impression on me. Now, you hear the one side and you see some of that stuff, we’ve been talking about in his podcast that makes you scratch your head and say, you know what? I don’t like that. How am I supposed to respect that? On the other hand, Phil Green said something to me one time. He just indicated he didn’t like duck hunters. I don’t like them. I’m not going to say for what he said verbatim but he liked me, we were friends. We saw each other at the office and had dinner at his house one time, got a beautiful cabin, had a great little boy, beautiful wife, good family. I’m sitting in my den, I’m sitting here looking at one of the most famous, beautiful waterfowl prints. My favorite waterfowl print ever, it’s a blue wing teal pitching in over the basher and there’s an old paddle boat in the back with vines growing up over it. And I saw that in his office one day and fell in love with it. I said, my God, it’s beautiful. Because I love blue wing teal and I just love that vibe and saw a Phil Green a few weeks later said, I know that guy and I got this picture for you sitting here and looking at it, I got a gift from Phil Green. But he said, he didn’t like duck hunter. I said why? He said, because I never met one that didn’t lie to me. I mean, think about that, now he wasn’t talking about going to church or sitting down there in the Government office or going over here, going over there, just talking to folks like me and you are, but Phil Green didn’t just walk around checking licenses, he was investigating through a spot in the scope, through binoculars, through whatever, however they do their magic. He was doing a lot of looking and what I learned from stories around town about Phil Green from working in that Fish and Wildlife environment what it is. Let me tell you something guys, if you’re out there in the blind kind of special agent walk up on you, you’re caught. Lie, deny whatever but them extra ducks you don’t fold it up or stomp down and they got you. But they ain’t just going to waste their time and tip their hand just coming out there to make pleasantries and check your license.

Rocky Leflore: No, they’re not there checking license or ask about mama name. They don’t care about either one of them.

Ramsey Russell: No, they are not out there talk about the weather. They’ve been watching for good reason probably, they got you. I’ll never forget – here’s my favorite Phil Green story and I am not going to tell you my favorite Phil Green story, Catfish flawed told me that. And somebody can tell a lot better than I can. And my favorite Phil Greene story I heard over dinner one time in Grenada and some boys have been out hunting some timber or something out of some sand and trees. They said it really was a great day of great hunt whatever, it was terrible hunting condition because it was so quiet and so cloudy and the water would just slick like a mirror and maybe some tupelo and cypress stuff like that and they’ve been shooting some doves and somehow ended up with an extra dove and careless not counting whatever. And they said it was so quiet, so still when you were just leaned against the trees in between the volleys, everybody just being quiet and leaned up against trees, the water was just slick. You said, you could hear a deer walking 100-150 yards away. So they wrapped up their hunt and we’re heading back, strapped up the birds, whatever, coming back. Boy said he walked about 20 yards where his last option was the tree had been leaning on, he got it bag and got this and got that strapped up and he turned very next tree, he had come to about 10, 15, 20 yards away, whatever. He said, Phil Green stepped out and he said, I screamed like a girl. He said, I’m just walking alone minding my own business, there’s old Phil Green just appears out of nowhere, steps out from behind tree and said howdy boys and he said, I ran in place to scream that scared me so bad. He said the whole time I’m thinking how in the world did somebody walk up a mile or whatever, into the spot where we were shooting undetected because it was impossible. It’s like he just gravitated in there walking on the water quietly. How you all doing? You all have a good hunt? Yeah, you all got your birds? Oh yeah, we got limit. He goes, I’m sure that’s all you got because oh yeah, of course, that’s all we got. He says you ain’t got no more birds and just what’s right here on the strap? He said no. He said you ain’t got a hen sitting in a hollow tree 15 yards behind you, look and go. I appreciate you going and getting it instead of me having to walk over and get it. He knew it, he has seen it. But I never will forget him saying that and it’s always made me conquer. I mean, I guess Rocky if he walked up on me on, because duck comes in an imperfect sport. I do my very utmost best to recover my birds, to shoot my birds me and my boys, they’re grown boys now, we really do – given the opportunity take turns. I mean my gosh, what’s the hurry to get back to camp? Ain’t nothing to do in the camp but sit around. So yeah man, you let those days hit where I love those days where Forrest shoots his, I shoot mine, Duncan shoots his, Ian shoots his, I mean, there’s no hurry, pair comes in, you shoot the right, I shoot the left. But every once in a blue moon Rocky, it’s a game of errors, Blue Bill, we call them blue bill, but butter balls that gum ring neck, that’s a bird, they’re fast, they’re balled up tight and it could happen if you go to shoot 6 bird and 2 fall, it’s happened. I know it happens. It could happen that 6 mallards come in, you shoot the right, I shoot the left, boom, we each shoot a bird and 50 yards out there one fall, he took a wild BB somewhere and they fall like what you going to do leave it? No, I’m not, I’m going to pick it up. I’m going to bring it in and I guess if the man shows up, I must say, yeah, well, I’m a bird owner. I ain’t going to leave it. And I did, man my upbringing, my granddaddy’s upbringing won’t let me do it. I don’t go out there and intentionally shoot a bird over but it could happen completely and utterly on accident. And I know it has happened before and more than once when those ring neck ball up it can happen. And that’s big deal going out and shooting 50 birds over the limit.

Rocky Leflore: Phil Green has been retired what, 12 years probably?

Ramsey Russell: I bet longer than that Rocky. Oh no, I bet Phil Green has been retired 20 some odd years. He retired, I was at Fish and Wildlife Service for 3.5 years maybe, it’s a long time ago, it don’t seem like a long time ago but I went to work in Grenada Fish and Wildlife Service North Mississippi Refuge complex as the forester in 1998 and I left, I remember letting my boss know that I had applied and was likely getting a job at US department of agriculture on 9/11. And what was that 2000 or 2001? I think it was 2001. And I left the report to that job in 2002, January 2002 that was the year my daughter was born and as I recall. In fact, I know Mark Johnson had already started working there when I left. So I feel great, I’m just going to venture a guest through the fog of time that Phil Green retired in 1999 or 2000. That’s 20 years ago.

Rocky Leflore: All right, so let me tell you a little backstory to this and it’s still not written in stone that he’s going to be on the podcast but I will say this, if he is and he tells all the stories that he has, it’s going to be the most legendary podcast in the outdoor world has ever been put together, ever. I’ll say that.

Ramsey Russell: Ever. Phil Green, I’m telling you in my lifetime and I didn’t know some of them old boys from back before then, but Phil Green was probably the most fabled and legendary federal agent, certainly in the Deep South, certainly in the state of Mississippi.

Rocky Leflore: Louisiana. He worked Louisiana and the Arkansas, Tennessee and Mississippi.

Ramsey Russell: That man was a federal agent, he worked everywhere, but his home office was there in Mississippi and he was assigned to clean up the free state of Tallahassee. And just like just Matt Dillon going to clean up Dog City without Phil Green’s job better understand. I think he did a pretty darn good job and I mean you would be hard pressed to find anybody at all back in those good old days. That didn’t have at least one really good, I almost said hilarious Phil Green story. My favorite Phil Green story that I am not going to tell because I would butcher it was him singing, him P-rolling into a duck hole up near in the Brazil flyway singing here comes Santa Claus, that when Catfish flaw told me that story, I literally cried laughing and there’s some people that tell a story and there’s some people that tell a story and Mr. Catfish Flaw can tell flat out, tell a story. And he knew that story and he knew those guys involved and that was my favorite Phil Green story I ever heard.

Rocky Leflore: I think that it’s doing – I’m kind of like you. Federal agent has a job to do and we may have two stories to tell – to go with on this podcast that got just a little overstretched with federal agents, but most of them are just doing their job and they do it by the law, I’m going to say all of them do. But in those 2 cases it’s been a little – in my opinion, a little overreach for 2 guys. All right, so in my mind I want to always keep it open mind to hear both sides on in any conversation, that Phil Green wasn’t a part of Ryan or Jeff Boyles case, but we need a federal game warden on the podcast or next one –

Ramsey Russell: Oh, you do, we really do. Yeah, I agree.

Rocky Leflore: And he is the best. So I made contact with a really good friend of mine, listen to this podcast, he knew Phil Green real well Christopher Logan. He’s known Phil Green for a while like I said, man how do I do it? How do I get him on the show? Christopher said look, the best way to do it is you need to call and talk to his son, get his son on your side the end, do it. So I called his son –

Ramsey Russell: How is his son doing these days? You go ahead, I’m sorry.

Rocky Leflore: So I called his son up last week and I said look, go through the back laids of our podcasts and how well it’s doing, how many people are listening to it and for me it is a dream to sit down and talk with Jim Phil Green, absolute dream. There’s nobody that I have more respect for in the water fowling world when it comes to law enforcement than Mr. Phil Green. So I said listen, I want to for you to be on my side in this. I want you to meet with you all discuss – because this is not a bass job on him. I just want him to get on here and talk about from the time he was just – I want to do a whole story on him from the time he was born until he became a game warden and a game warden stories. He’s an interesting guy. He said, you got me, he said, I will go with you and be on your side and try to get him to do this. He said, there’s one thing that I ask of you, I don’t even know if I should be telling this, but I don’t care. I said, sure you name it, I’ll do it. He said, when he gets done with recording all these with you all I want is for you to pass me back the audio files of where you recorded. Because we have been on Daddy about putting all these stories into a book.

Ramsey Russell: Oh my gosh. Man, what he saw, how the delta changed, how people changed, how the birds changed, what the man saw would be so profound and not to mention the stories and I would like to hear someone like Jim, I would like to hear Jim’s stories, boy you better believe he’s got some stories. I would like to hear his thoughts as Ex-law enforcement federal agent on the process why the case was made? You know I’m saying? What would he have seen? Why would he have taken that story? Not to tip sand or give an unfair band, I’m not talking about that, I just like to hear the other side of story. You know what I am saying, I just like to see – you said the word overreach, why? Why did they go with that? And I know there’s 2 sides to every story, I know that. I know there’s 2 sides to every story but the 2 stories I have heard on The End of The Line podcast taking break into a cold sweat. Somebody said on your forum if they want you, they’re going to get you. That’s scary Rocky. I grew up believing that I could chop down my daddy’s favorite cherry tree and still be president. I grew up believing that the court system, I believed I was innocent till proven guilty. I believe there were 2 – I thought the court system was – and I don’t mean a man going out, 3 men going out shooting 50 ducks, that’s just ignorance and just sheer abuse of the law. I’m not talking about that. They’ll know their feet to a stake and put them in a fine a bit. I mean throw the book at him. Yeah, I get that. That’s just childish. But man, I just can’t imagine agents going in and interviewing an 11 year old child. I just can’t imagine that –

Rocky Leflore: Here’s the thing –

Ramsey Russell: I can’t imagine some of the stuff that went into those stories.

Rocky Leflore: Here’s the thing that I think that happens. And we’ve got to wrap this up. Ramsey, I think a lot of times in these federal cases, federal agents are led to believe in a lot of these cases that there’s a lot more there then they actually find when they get there, but they spent the time, they spent the resources trying to investigate this big thing, well, you’ve got to justify it. Federal agents have to justify being there and spending so much money on a certain case that they’re not going to let you off. They’re going to find which that – any blazing act violation is a major law to be broken don’t get me wrong. But a lot of times when you hear the backstory of why of this stuff going on, the reason that they’re there and the end convictions that come out are they don’t match up. You understand what I’m saying?

Ramsey Russell: Yeah. I guess not. I don’t know. To me there’s got to be intent. I mean, that was like the –

Rocky Leflore: I think you’re going to find out next, like in either next week or 2 weeks from now on Ryan’s podcast of he found out why they were there. And I think it’s going to blow you away because the why and what they ended up convicting him for didn’t match up. Jeff shooting over the limit. Well, Jeff didn’t, if you go back there, Jeff wasn’t shooting over the limit. A lot of people in his lodge, if we go out there and we group shoot or and we come back and mistakes were made in Jeff’s case where they would write ducks in people’s names that weren’t there. I think that there was one case of that, but –

Ramsey Russell: Here’s what I’m trying to say is, I worked among in the same office building Mr. Phil Green and I was not law enforcement, Phil Green with the utmost professional. Everybody in law enforcement there in that office, utmost professional, I wasn’t privy to their stories, their case files, okay? They didn’t drag me, I was a forester, so I wasn’t involved in that. But we’re all in a small environment you hear a few things here and there, you can’t work in a small office and not just hear something. And I worked with Mark Johnson and I respected them both. I liked them both personally as people, I like them as people and I respected the work they did. And anybody that I was ever aware of that had been busted on any migratory bird violation deserved it. It’s the talk tale, they were the utmost professionals and it gave me a profound sense of respect for what those guys do. I mean those federal agents aren’t working 8 hour shifts. They are on the clock around the clock undercover doing all kinds of stuff. I mean, they’re gone from their families alive. And let’s admit it, folks, so many topics we talked about the absence of ducks and we want more ducks, we want an abundance of wildlife, we want all this good stuff. There are folks out there that will utterly abuse that resource.

Rocky Leflore: Exactly what I was just fixing to say it, Ramsey.

Ramsey Russell: They’ll abuse it. And you know what, we’re talking ducks. Some of the stuff I saw and became aware of as a forester and then briefly refuge manager working up here in North Mississippi, I mean my Lord man, snapping turtles, the great big old snapping turtles and paddlefish, there’s stuff going on out there in this world that you just wouldn’t even dream of Rocky. I mean, we’re talking about going out and shooting a few ducks, shooting 10 ducks too many, which is obscene and in this day and age but at the same time, we’re talking about, there’s stuff going on out there. Folks rape pillaging and plundering those great big old snapping turtles or I mean hoop netting and just raping the waterways for paddlefish to get their freaking illegal caviar, I saw that stuff. And if these guys that are protecting that resource they can’t protect itself. And I’m telling you, if we need them, but I just like to hear, I would love to hear, please tell Phil Green, I said hello because he’s one of my favorite people up there. I love him death, I love the time spent with him and the stories I heard and his kids and they were such good people. He was such a good person, I love them to death. And its like, when I heard Phil Green stories – I’ll say this, I’ve never heard anybody – all the Phil Green stories I’ve ever heard nobody denied having done wrong doing it. You follow what I am saying? It’s all kind of told the context, we deserved it. And it made me love that man even more.

Rocky Leflore: I’ll say this, will end on this note. I encourage – listen you’ve been listening to Jeff tell his side of the story on this podcast. One article that came to light to me by David Lindsey today. He sent me an article that was written in the International Game Wardens, he sent me a link to it – The International Game Warden’s Magazine. It was about Jeff and they go at great length of the why they go into this. Now, on Jeff’s side of it, Jeff’s told that, he did have a jilted spouse that he was getting a divorce from, it was a big deal. He had a partner that was trying to take his business that was messing around with his wife. Yeah. All right, so if you’re the federal game wardens and somebody calls you up and makes up stuff. Hey, they’re shooting over the limit, they’re raping and pillaging ducks, you got to do – this guy messed up the story, this guy’s getting drugs across the Canadian border. Al lright, if you’re sitting on the game wardens perspective and you’re seeing the videos that Jeff is putting out, kill them all. It doesn’t take much for you to say, hey, let’s go after this guy.

Ramsey Russell: Of course not. No, that’s your job. I mean, these guys do their job.

Rocky Leflore: Ramsey, you got to admit and if Jeff is his no disrespect to you bud back then you weren’t the greatest example in the world on videos. Nothing against you but there was some disrespect shown to waterfowl in those videos from a game wardens perspective. So it didn’t take much to make them come after you.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah. Well I can say – one time I asked a collateral law enforcement, federal law enforcement officer not special agent, collateral law enforcement. I didn’t understand, for example and I didn’t appreciate one, I did not like this person. I will say that I won’t say his name, but I did not like him at all. He was miserable, he was a self-loathing person. This guy was not a special agent, he was just a collateral law enforcement for federal government. But he was by the book, no nonsense and he young and dumb fresh out of grad school working for the federal government. I just innocently asked this question one time and I think it sums it up perfectly but I asked him. I said, I don’t understand doves are migratory birds. Yeah, ducks are migratory birds, yeah, which are all under the purview trust species of US Fish and Wildlife service, migratory birds that dove, blackbirds, wobblers, waterfowl, migratory birds, crows, migratory birds all falls under the purview cormorants all falls under the purview US Fish and Wildlife trust species and I’m talking about ducks and doves and I said but I don’t understand, I can go out there and plant sunflowers or corn and bush hog it, spread it and shoot doves but I can’t do it for ducks. I was just innocently trying to make a distinction. And what this collateral law enforcement said, it was certainly the way he said it but it was on point and the way I’ll communicate is, it doesn’t matter. The law is the law. As law enforcement, my job is to enforce the law not to interpret it. If you want an interpretation, go ask the judge, go ask congress, I’m here to imply. And that’s what you really got to remember folks, the laws are there and we’re blessed in America, we are truly blessed in America with black and white law. And I’m not saying there’s some grey hairs subject to interpretation because I was sitting there reading parse part 20 of migratory bird laws and you got to read careful, but it would help me to be a attorney to read those things because they were written by attorney types and it’s not just – don’t do over 65. But it’s pretty plainly written. And it’s not just that we have the law of black and white. The law is black and white, but it’s the way that you might not read the federal register every day but all those laws, every changes, all this stuff is put out in federal register and then it put out in sporting goods outlets, it’s put out in pamphlets, it’s put out on the internet, it’s very rapid distribution in terms of this knowledge. And so, if they quit shooting pin tails this year, we’ll all know it, unless you’re living under a rock, you’ll know going into the season what the limits are, what the shooting times are, what the laws are, it’s all painted out and all we got to do is color in between the lines, it’s all painted out. You go to some countries, it might take years for right information become fully disseminated if ever let alone see public. I mean, I’m telling you even though the other countries might have internet, they don’t disseminate and get the information out, like we in America do. So, those laws are out there and at the end of the day it’s just your responsibility, my responsibility as a hunter –

Rocky Leflore: To understand them.

Ramsey Russell: To understand them and really and truly – I don’t know if you’ve ever applied to say, go hunt something big game wise out in Montana. You want to talk about some laws and some rules and you better pour yourself a tall drink and a lot of big long cigar before you start getting buried up in that stuff and reading it gets real complicated and convoluted as compared to just picking up the federal – reading the laws on duck limits and what’s shooting, what to do and tag your birds when you come out and that’s just how it is. But you can hate and be disrespectful or whatever else about federal law enforcement but at the end of the day, you just got to look at yourself and say, they’re law enforcement, they’re law enforcement no different than a highway patrol or anybody else to law enforcement. And they’re not trying to interpret the law, they’re just enforcement what they know about the law and I will say, that’s just my take on it with my dealings especially with the Phil Green and Mark Johnson. They were good people and they were good law enforcement. I can say the same thing about my old buddy Rob Heflin from the stateside. He took the time to make a teachable moment for Forest and he was straight arrow as far as I’m concerned, I enjoy being around him.

Rocky Leflore: Well, I will let you know tomorrow after I meet with him, it’s going to happen or not. You’ll find out on Duck South –

Ramsey Russell: Tell him I said, hello.

Rocky Leflore: You need to go eat your tomato sandwich and we need to go Ramsey. Thank you again for another great Thursday, I have really

Enjoyed it. We want to thank all of you that listen to this edition of The End of The Line podcast powered by ducksouth.com.

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